Deprogramming Christians

I only wanted to say that a sincere inquiry is needed rather than criticism. Your arguments don't make up a religion, there is no depth to it, just as my arguments can be taken at face value also- there is no depth to them. Religions do have depth. People like Vivekananda would not want just criticism of religion, they would use their reason for personal understanding, you should be able to see that.

 

And I think Fed Up has made a sincere inquiry, because till now no one has been able to best him in debate.

Well, if my arguments are logical and rational , there is indeed value to them as Vashista, Krishna, Buddha and Vivekananda teaches.

Vivekananda indeed has criticized many of the dogmas and irrational stuff in religions , and heavily emphasized logic and reason , to strip off the superstitions in religion.

 

Well said, this indeed is the true holy crusade, which Jesus will bless us all for.

 

Usually people in power use whatever means necessary to get what they want, it is not the religion's fault. The very instances that you blame religion for could be interpreted in several ways. I am simply giving my humble opinion that one should keep religion out of it, because its main purpose is on self reflection for the betterment of human community because religion is not the definite reason for world's problems. Yes, i disagree with you.

I believe in God, self reflection with religion is for those who believe and want to go back to God. Part of going back to God is understanding oneself and helping others understand themselves and developing good qualities (qualities that help end human suffering). Understand religion in this manner and you see how religion is not the problem, it is the human ignorance thats the problem.

 

I am not talking about him, I am talking about you. Also, just because someone is not bested in debate so far, does not mean he is right. Accuracy of understanding the world around us has nothing to do with human ability to debate. If such were the case, then we would still believe that the earth is flat or that earth is the center of the universe.

I apologize, I might have missed the logic of your arguments in the mesh work of quotes from various sources that you seem to post.

Yes that is true, I admire that you take vivekananda as a ideal criticizer of religion. However, his inquiry into things like the nature of the sin itself, which fitted well with what bible was saying, he was not interested in what "atrocities" christian religion is accountable for etc. That is simply was something he was not interested in doing, maybe its because he was not under the illusion that religion was responsible for such things in the first place or else why would he be even a sanyasi? .

 

Oh really, then why don't you refute what I said.

Well, he definetely is close to being right, and unless someone bests him in debate we are apt to think he is correct.

It definetely does, and Vaada and Socrates teachings are examples of this.

Funny out mentioned this. Because the belief that the earth is flat and is the centre of the universe was the beliefs of the church, and that is the reason why Galileo was persecuted , condemned and humiliated by the church, for refuting their beliefs.

Well, these quotes are from sages and wise men whom I admire, and hence I wanted to quote them here, as their words have more authority than mine.

And what idiocy are you again talking over here. vivekananda described sins as nothing but errors, and which we could eradicate through knowledge, which is vastly different from the churches point of view.

And vivekananda indeed criticized many aspects of the atrocities of the christian religion, like the burning of witches, and condemning people as sinners .

Vivekananda indeed denounced superstitions in religion, just like his ancestor Buddha, who too was a sannyasin.

 

Mr. Niranjan, understand that besting someone in debate has nothing to do with the favorable conclusion of a debate, which is arriving at the Truth or a supposed truth based on Logic.

 

Mr. :baby: , Fed Up is indeed engaging in debate and his arguments are very logical, and it has been stated by many others as well, including Voltaire, Thomas Paine, and Robert Ingersoll. It is your arguments that lack logic, just like all your posts.

 

The problem isn't that Fed Up doesn't post his arguemnts logically, it's that he refuses to consider other points of view and repeats the same arguements all the time.

 

Then you can challenge him to a debate, and refute him. From what I know, he likes challenges and debates. You can also refute Paine, Voltaire and Ingersoll as well.

 

I have debated him many a time. I find it to be a monumental waste of my time. There's no reason to debate with someone if the person doesn't listen to a word you say. Most times (perhaps every time) I have debated him he hasn't read my posts in entirity, assumed many things, and repeated the same arguement even if it didn't make sense witht he developing debate.

And Fed Up, if you think I shed any tears about anything you say or do, you are sorely mistaken. If I would shed tears for anything it would be your ignorance.

 

That's because you never debate. All you ever do when I say anything are things like "nope, wrong again junior". You don't give an arguement to back up your claims, just that you're right and I'm wrong:
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234614

 

Which makes me wonder. You state yourself to be an agnostic and not a christian. On what grounds are you debating.

 

I think anyone that is programmed to take out common joys in life is not only retarded but jus insane in some way. Live as you want. Believe in what you want..but whats the point of life if you don't do what you want as so long as you are not hurting others and treating people with respect.

 

My knowledge of Christianity. I was raised semi-Christian, and my mom's side of the family is Christian (though they are the close-minded type, not my mom though). I don't think Christianity (or most religions for that matter) is inherently bad just because some people do bad things with it. Just because I'm not Christian doesn't mean I can't have an oppinion on the matter. I think there are many many good messeges you can extract from Christianity.

 

I understand and agree with you. But unfortunately all religions are filled with superstitions and dogmas and idiocies along with wisdom. And this is what is causing all the religious fanaticism and religious wars.

Through ruthless logic and reasoning, we have to get rid of the superstitions of all religions, and extract only the pure wisdom from them and use it for our good.

 

I agree. I think in many religions the good outweighs the bad. I know this isn't the case in Christianity, but I still hold hope that it can be changed.

 

It will be changed.



Nothing is impossible to those who try.

--Alexander.

If Martin Luther criticized the catholic church for its flaws and corruption and changed Christianity for the better, so can us.

 

Here is a glaring example of what FedUp is talking about.....



Do you know, when Benjamin Franklin invented the lightening rod, saving so many homes (and people) from being destroyed, he was accused of “stealing God’s thunder.” In other words, he was trying to get in the way of God punishing the deserving by sending lightning to burn down their house (and possibly their children).

Did you know that when Dr. James Young Simpson sought to apply anesthesia to women in childbirth, the clergymen of his day claimed that he was being sacrilegious, since God had ordained that “in pain thou shalt bring forth children?” All use of anaesthetic was blasted by many clergy since afflictions of the flesh were commonly understood as punishment for sin, original or otherwise. Pain was supposedly the result of Satanic influence, demonic possession or simply The Will of God rather than an evolved response to potentially noxious stimuli.