Disproving God

There's nothing in the definition of God that says that free will must exist or God can not, though. You need to be more specific as to what religion's concept of God you're attempting to disprove. If you think you're disproving the Christian God, that you may be, for yourself (and I would agree), but, haha, people have been trying that for HUNDREDS of years. Most Christians who believe in salvation from sins don't care about the logic of the thing. If you want them to go away your best bet is to gather an army and begin murdering them, which isn't going to happen either.

 

Also, the whole light at the end of the tunnel thing could possibly be some sort of chemical reaction in some part of your brain.

yeah, its DMT. its naturally produced while you sleep (dreams?) and right before you die. i think DMT is heaven- your brain being put into a suspended state infinitely. talk about a warped perception of time...

 

Unless you experience something incredible, it is hard to believe...even when there is proof, it is still hard to believe (sometimes even to the person who experienced it)

This site is pretty interesting:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

 

Yes, and it has not even been proven yet that DMT is the
root cause of this, only hypothesised.

Either way, the white light and near death experience
to me is a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with
God, and I am a complete believer of God.
The soul has nothing to do with the physical plane
of existance, it is even beyond the astral plane with the
astral body, so how could we perceive a physical light
and see angels and all this typical physical stuff?
The soul does not have a sense of awareness that
perceives physical nature through material means,
so I dont see the connection between heaven being
perceived by a soul, then the soul reinhabiting the
dead body and the mind recollecting a physical presence.
It, in itself, is backwards and confused, but most
people can not grasp the concept that one can not
grasp the existance of God through any sense-natured
means.
God, the soul, and the essence of energy are beyond
such means. The reality of physical nature is a
consequence to spiritual nature, an after thought. ~

 

isnt everything we experience incredible?

 

Yes, and it has not even been proven yet that DMT is the
root cause of this, only hypothesised.

its been proven that DMT is produced in the brain while you sleep and right before you die, although it has not been proven that DMT is the cause of dreams and NDE hallucinations.

 

Ho Ho Ho Down the rabbit hole we go!

 

yes, that's exactly what I meant.
perhaps I should have clarified the
distinction between the two mental
condition. ~

 

okay everybody.
the existence of the afterlife doesn't prove that an omnscient or omnipotent being exists.
and NDEs are pretty damn sketchy evidence of an afterlife at best (less than big foot).

so, let's get this thread back on track.

i've gone through an omniscient and omnipotent god (at least in the nonfatalistic ((no free will)) connotations).
so, is there a creator?

the problem with a 'first mover' idea is that what moved the first mover? what created god? (it's like the belief that the world rests on the back of tortoise: what does the tortoise stand on ((it's tortoises all the way down))).

you may get around this hurdle by assuming that god is in fact the entire universe, or the infinite possibilites of the universe. but that adds nothing to the idea of the universe, at it's basic concept(like, definition of a word). you could define it as easily without calling it god.
so that doesn't prove the existence of god, merely the existence of the universe (which isn't infinite cause it's expanding).

 

God doesn't exist - Acknowlege your own power and realize yourself

 

Eugene:

God as anything more than concept is disproven in everything, but that the universe expands does not mean it is finite.

 

it doesn't make diddly what we "prove" or "disprove". what matters is what we avoid screwing up for each other.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Things matter in how we evaluate them, not just in how we may avoid ruining them with our evaluations.

How best to give what life has given us?

 

Dood, free will is a reference to your EGO. Because of it you have the concious at any time to be a an idiot. Depending on where you got dropped into this world, and in what circumstances, some of us can become, or accomplish great things, go to great schools, and be GREAT! But in the end when you have accomplished great things pursuing what your ego desired, are you really happy? You had a huge house, a good wife, a great car, had a excellent family, hell you lived, the proveribal "north american dream"... but why is it that alot of people living this dream still claim they are unhappy? It's because they have not found there soul, they have not found there purpose.

FREE WILL is your EGO.
AND GOD is present in your life, through your SOUL.

If you want to find your soul, sit there with a pen and paper, and write at the top of a page, WHAT IS MY PUPOSE IN LIFE? and start writing anwsers. TO BE A GREAT FATHER, TO DO THIS, TO DO THAT, TO etc etc etc.

It may take 20 minutes, it may take an hour, I don't know... but eventually you will write something that will make you crack. When you write down that sentence that makes you weep, my freind, that is your purpose.

As any person in the military can tell you when they go through boot camp and they "snap crackle pop" (kellogs rice krispies) under the pressure, alot of them adopt an attitude of ITS JUST A JOB, ITS LIFE, ARMY TUFF, ARMY STRONG to cope with it. But others say this is a profound life altering experience, they found prupose, they found a bound duty, there life now has meaning. There in the chaos of battle and the end of their rope they find their own soul.

Now, that being said, that the most beatiful example of how some people find there purpose in life BY DEFAULT. We all have a diffrent purpose. These people are here to be peace keepers and when they find this they are GLAD. But it's diffrent for us all.

The only heffalump trap I see is the life long conflict between SOUL and EGO. And how the EGO usually wins.

P.S. I LOVE THE HEFFALUMP!

 

Exact-a-mundo!

 

sorry, i don't buy that and i don't see it.

more generally; i believe in a universe that doesn't have to have been created. i even believe in belief itself being in many ways a kind of con game, and i believe in no belief nor disbelief being more important then not screwing everything up for each other.

but i simply cannot see the connection

how any of that REQUIRES the nonexistence of nontangable awairenessess, great and small, who love us and wish us well.

is it really "human" that we need to learn how to be? or isn't THAT really just a con game too?

isn't what we REALLY need to learn; how to not be self destructive, individually AND collectively?

=^^=
.../\...

 

of course this all depends on what you define as the "universe".
in the sense of the gigantic space that the planets swim in, it's infinite.
it's possible that there are others that lie outside ours.
or that in a quantum sense everything exists as a potentiality in some infinite sense.
but the bit with the stars (and us) in it is limited (although, very, very big).

i know it's rather mean to destroy someone's sand castle, but this is an athiest forum afterall, debate on the nonexistence of god is pretty much par for the course (if not cliche).

I have no purpose.
at least none given to me by some external force.
i'm fine with that. i like the idea of infinite potential.

and the two of the big three monotheistic religions center their belief structure around the idea that god is all knowing, and that you as an individual have to choose between good and evil, with very real consequences.

and how is someone under extreme stress a good example of rational reasoning?

i understand the whole ego thing. i agree with half of it.
problem is english tends to break down when dealing without an ego (how do you say i have an idea if you don't believe in i, having, or ideas?).

but that doesn't prove the existence of god.
and your love of the heffalump trap is a love for a trap of the ego. as well as your belief that a big car, big house, hell even a family are good things.
as is your need for a purpose.

it's all just there to massage your ego.

 

Eugene, this thread neither disproves or proves god. It is simply a philisopical thead on whether or not god exists. Proof=proof, not Philosiphy=proof.


Go back to science class to learn the difference.

 

Eugene:

The meaning of the universe is not restricted to what we can observe of everything, but what we may assume, which is of course infinity.

Limited by what?

Themnax:

Belief aside, it is more important to do good for eachother than to avoid doing harm. This is because desire is positive. Humans prefer to give pleasure than to avoid pain.

It doesn't require it! But if the existence of said awareness is intangible, why posit it at all, let alone bestow love and well-wishing among its qualities?

That one can't help but be doesn't stop one becoming.

Individually: not necessarily.
Collectively: Yes, but subtly if not silently, at least not in so many words!

A great goal to aim at would address human need more fully than the avoidance of catastrophe----the latter can be achieved via the former, but not the other way around. The world is not yet so stricken that our greatest goal lies in avoiding striking eachother, nor is it yet inevitable that it should become so.


And danger? What bearing does it REALLY have on the human will?

 

i lean more to seeing god as law and substance. Dismissing god is dismising reason finding peace with what if perhaps were all one being hence there will be no hell or heaven when we die only a sudden overwhelming jolt into divine understanding and acceptance that seems to last all of time. we are made by the severe chance of the circumstances that are made by the laws of time space and matter, in essence we are energy and all that is energy is us we are not god yet god is us. you can make him the fiber of beleifs of moral stability but i find god as the not the all knowing pressence but the balance of all that is order and disorder. all that is time and all that is substance. death is all thats left to look forward to in life, even when all other understanding of life has been exhausted death is still there to assure you youre not in control and this world isnt the only experience you will have,death i beleive it will be the only thing we will understand truly when it happens, because we feel the answer and words will never be necessary. i pray we will all understand