Do any of you actually live in Amsterdam?

and what about that Antilliaan who robbed 2 friends of my with a knife?
What about that surinamer who robbed an other friend of my with a knife
Don't forget the turks who kicked my mother of her bike
and I can go on and on and on and on.

Maybe you should get out of Zoetermeer a bit more Myrtje...

 

what about that dutch guy who kicked my friend of his bike and the dutch guys who set the mosks(sp?) on fire and the islam schools?
come on fedor.. every country has its bad seeds..

 

Yes, and only 99% of the street robberies in my city are being committed by foreigners...

http://frontpage.fok.nl/news.fok?id=15151

 

No maybe not accidental, but have you ever thought about that maybe - just maybe - the fact that some Maroccans (2,5% of Maroccans - between 15 and 25 i believe- in Holland have caused some trouble) do such things has a reason? And that maybe we as Dutch people are a big part of that reason? First they grew up with 2 different standards, Dutch culture outside, their own culture at home. That seems confusing to me. Then there's the thing i talked about before, all they hear from us is how much trouble they cause, how unwelcome they are, how they only commit crimes and are a sort of burden to society etc etc. Most of them dont grow up in the best of neighbourhoods either. Maybe you could try to imagine how they feel for once, instead of blaming all foreign people of the crimes some of them commit. And i dont know what the comment about me living in Zoetermeer is all about. Just because i dont seem to hate foreigners as much as you do, you assume i know nothing about whats going on in some places? Youre basically saying that because i dont show as much hate, im ignorant on the subject, because anyone who'd know anything about foreigners, would hate them. Says more about you than it does about me or the 'allochtonen'.

 

well said myrtje..

 

absolutely. very well said myrtje.

 

Just because you don't like Fedor it's a bit silly to ignore the percentages. It has nothing to do with left- or rightwing point of views but it's not something you can't avoid.

In Nederland werden vorig jaar 200.495 vonnissen uitgesproken. Van de veroordeelden waren 138.146 autochtoon en de rest, 62.349 allochtoon. Verdeeld over de groepen: Marokkanen 12.243, Turken 8.052, Antillianen 7.981, Surinamers 14.824 en de overige groepen allochtonen samen 19.339. Volgens deze cijfers zou ruim 31% van de veroordeelden een allochtone achtergrond hebben. En dat komt overeen met een rapport van het ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken uit 1998. Men was toentertijd huiverig dit rapport te publiceren omdat men de percentages wel erg hoog vond. Gaat men deze cijfers doorrekenen naar de groepsgrootte dan blijkt dat Marokkanen 4,9, turken 2,7, Antillianen 9,4, Surinamers 5,6 en de overige allochtonen 1.9 maal zo vaak veroordeeld worden als autochtone Nederlanders.
Maar deze cijfers zijn een absolute ondergrens. Uit dit rapport blijkt namelijk dat een groot percentage van de daders ten onrechte als autochtoon wordt beschouwd. Het politieherkenningssysteem registreert slechts het geboorteland en de nationaliteit van de verdachte. Dus een genaturaliseerde allochtoon van de tweede generatie geldt als autochtoon!! Hier is dus een enorme vertekening, die per groep sterk zal verschillen (Surinamers en Antillianen hebben bijvoorbeeld vrijwel allemaal de Nederlandse nationaliteit, daar zal de vertekening het grootst zijn), maar over alle groepen heen laat zich een vertekening van gemiddeld 40% zien. Slechts 60% van de allochtone daders wordt als zodanig, als allochtoon, geregistreerd.
Als we de cijfers voor deze omissie – overigens naar etnische groep niet verder gedifferentieerd, dus veralgemeend – corrigeren, krijgen we het volgende beeld:
Van de veroordeelden worden dan Marokkanen 20.405 maal veroordeeld, Turken 13.420, Antillianen 13.152, Surinamers 24.707 en de overige allochtonen 32.232 keer.
Autochtonen plegen dan in totaal 96.580 misdrijven en alle allochtonen 103.915. Dus de allochtonen plegen, afgaande op de veroordelingen, in absolute zin meer delicten dan de autochtonen, hoewel ze maar 12% van de bevolking uitmaken!

I don't have an opinion about this -actually, I don't think anyone really can or should have- but don't judge someone because of results, but treat people according to individual actions.

 

Who says i dont like him, or that im ignoring facts? I know about the facts, im just saying there could be a reason behind them and that people shouldnt forget about that so easily.

 

I don't dislike fedor.. but I think myrtje said everything I wanted to say.. There is a reason these statistics are so high.

 

Big deal about that they live in different cultures and that there is a reason for their behaviour. I rather live in a nice and safe environment without them. Where I live they've already taken over, and discriminate Dutch people even more than we do it to them.

Thats why I'm really glad that next year I don't live here anymore in this multikul city. On the other hand it's a shame this city is going down like this.(More foreign people than Dutch in Rotterdam)

I always like it to see people saying that it's so wrong to hate them, and that "asielzoekers" are more than welcome etc etc etc. We'll talk again when your neighbourhood turned into a multicultural one

 

I dont like that Rotterdam isnt a Dutch city anymore either, im just saying not to hate all foreign people because some commit crimes. And its partly our fault, Dutch people dont have enough kids.

 

well, thats just stupid.. so there are to many 'allochtonen' in rotterdam because dutch people don't have enough kids??? lol
I don't think that having more kids is the anwser, rotterdam just becomes more crowded and the number of 'allochtonen' isn't going to change..

 

I've heard of the 'fokverbod' but never of the 'fokgebod'.

 

i wasnt really being serious... but its true that dutch people dont have enough kids

 

Is there an international standard for the amount of kids one should have? You're a bit rude... Since when do Dutch people not have enough kids?

 

That's always the way with racism, it breeds more racism in return. Think about the mixed messages that these people have been receiveing from the dutch community over the last decades. First, the dutch ask them to come over and help rebuild. They are offered incentives and a better quality of life. They are introduced to the idea of Dutch tolerance only to get over there and quickly learn that the dutch refuse to accept them in any other capacity than manual labourers.

Once the dutch have used them to rebuild the country and do the work they they are 'above' doing themselves, they say 'okay, now it's time to go home'.

Is it any wonder the situation is like it is now. Your attitude is that to which I have been referring for this whole thread. Unfortunately it's shared by the majority of Dutch people (not the majority of dutch people on this board apparently).

In the past, the Dutch have just set off and colonized (plundered) another country when things started to get tough. Now that that is no longer possible and the dutch empire is not what it once was, the dutch are pissed off.

There is much to be said for the idea of karma. The dutch have done serious wrong to so many groups of people around the world for many , many years and now it's coming back to them in their own country. If they continue to respond in kind, then it's only a matter of time before the dutch become a thing of the past.

 

I'm sorry to hear the way you talk about this fedor, since I have a lot of refugees/asielzoekers amongst my friends, including 'illegal' once. This subject is very touchy and close to me so I don't really want to go in depth about this, but let's just say: I hope you can maintain your principals about 'allochtonen' when there comes a time your country is burned down and slaughtered and you are completely dependant on the mercy of others.

The neighbourhood I live in is 99% black (mostly surinam) and I LOVE the vibe here. This neighbourhood actually makes me think of migrating to somewhere where the whole country is like this. Everyone is really friendly, a lot of the 'life' happens on the streets, very vivid and lively neighbourhood.

I really don't get discrimination. On Saturday I was at a friends place and we were talking about it, when we noticed the difference of the people present (all friends and friends of friends): whites, blacks (true africans), yellow (chinese ancestry) and brownish (Sri Lanka).. religions: Christian, Buddhist, Islam & Hindu. We all got a bit silent when we realized how special a group of friends like this is nowadays.. then one guy said: "If I cut myself and you cut yourself.. which color do we bleed?"

And that's really the bottomline.. we are all humans. And if you can't see beyond skincolor or cultural differences, you are really missing out on a lot of amazing people.

 

good point velvet.

if things keep going in the same direction as they have for the past five years, then we won't have to wait all that long to see if Fedor can back up his bigotry.

 

This government is indeed making a LOT of enemies plus the situation in the EU is very unstable, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if this continent will face another war soon. We live in false freedom (like the whole western world) and once you educate yourself about what is really happening it's shocking. Like a Tshirt of consolidated says.. "if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention".

Lately I've been so frustrated and dissapointed by the System/government.. maybe a war would do those stuck up bigots some good, let them feel what it's like to be scared, seeking refuge in another country, be treated there like a criminal.. the prejudice, struggle..

Damnit.. sorry.. just feeling shitty now, very worried 'bout a friend.

 

I don't "hate" all allochtonen. I have absolutely no problems with Asians, and other Western immigrants.

In my schoolclass I also work with a Surinamer and Turkish wife, and have no problem with them either. But there are to much of them. For example when I'm in the train I always count the alloch- and autochtonen. Dutch people are always outnumbered. I don't feel like I live in Holland anymore, and I don't like their culture.

About once in a month there is a Turkish wedding in my street, which really cracks me up. Loud annoying music, cars(only Mercedes, and BMW) with turkish flags racing through the street, dancing and screaming people on the streets. Bah.

explain