Do any of you actually live in Amsterdam?

so punish the government, not the people. there is an old saying that goes something like "you get the government that you deserve". Instead, the Dutch government has successfully avoided being held accountable for their screw ups by playing into the collective fears of Dutch society and offering up a scapegoat ('It's not our fault, it's all these nasty uncivilized allochtonen, blame them!')

 

Again (this is getting scary) I agree with Jasonspaceman.. get yourself educated, go out and meet actual immigrants. I bet you didn't even know that for a lot of them it's not even possible to go 'back home' since their embassy doesn't cooperate. Why else do you think the IND picks up illegal people only to put them back into the streets a few months later with a 'buitenschuld' certificate?

To me, you're just another spoiled white rich kid who has NO idea how lucky you are to be living the life you have. I see people our age struggle each day because our government fucked up with their bureaucratic rules. Hell, some of the refugees didn't even want to ask for asylum here, they were just passing through this country on their way to England or the US but while transferring in Holland the police forced them to stay and ask for asylum here because of their young age. Now, they can't leave this country for another one untill their papers here are fixed, which can take a lot of years.

Fedor.. you are holding on to something that probably never even existed and you are missing out on some great friends with that hatefull attitude of yours.

 

History is never unbiased, so you can never only look at you own interpretation and tell people with other opinions to go back to school.

De Telegraph lol

O yes, I forgot, you know all immigrants in Holland. My advice is to go out and meet more people like Fedor.

Hear, hear!

 

I don't agree with this.. I think you should always fight for what you believe, even though you might not win..

I do agree with the fact that you should go back to school fedor.. Your opinion isn't based on the truth but on emotions.. understandable, but you must look a little bit further to know whats really going on to change the situation..

 

Of course were taught about slavery and ive read Mex Havelaar etc. I know it wasnt pretty, dont worry. Im just saying that colonization wasnt their first intention, slavery too was seen as bussiness. Tribes there were quite fond of killing eachother, and getting eachother of their own lands (still are today), so what they did is make money out of the hate the tribes had towards eachother. Im not saying its a good thing.

 

I so cant stand the 'if you dont like it, leave' attitude. Seriously, its like a flashing neonlight thing going *ignorance, ignorance, ignorance* above your head.

 

Why cant you delete messages on here?

 

Dutch schools are runned by people who are leftwinged in politics. Usually they vote SP or Groen links or PVDA. The firtst two are a socialist party and an far left party. The PVDA is the reason for all the troubles in Holland by ignoring the problems when they had the power.

And the people who are the allochtonen used to be the arabian and North African SlaveTraders who sold the Black africans to the europeans. That is the nature of the beast. The allochtonen in holland are not the former slaves. The former slaves are more dutch then the Turkisch and the Arabians. The Turkisch who supress in there own country the Kurds and have slaughtered the Armenians. The Iraqi way. They were the ones who had the bright idea to de-head your enemies. Which they have practiced alot in countries like Iraq in the Ottoman kingdom
The Maroccans who still have a culture of honour killing. Which also heapens in Holland. Brothers who shoot there little sister because she is dating a dutch boy. Maroccans who piss on everything that doesn't stroke with their own maroccan culture. But that from 50 years ago because things have changed in Marocco without the Maroccans in holland knowing.

But there are many maroccans and turkisch that I like. Some of my best friends have been Turkisch. And it's a pitty that the multicultural society isn't working.

It is because there are to many culture who have a pride history of being a superpower.
The Ottoman Empire. The old Arabic world. Holland in the Golden age. They all have their prides and it collides

 

Eh... where do you think the black people of the Antillen and Surinam are from? They are a major part of the 'allochtonen' in this country and the only reason they lived in those countries is because they were shipped there as slaves. Just because you mostly hear about the north african and turkish immigrants in the media doesn't mean they are the only ones! What about the large number of Indonesian people here.. or the Chinese? The maroccans are just the present day scapegoat.. and that's all there is to it. It perfectly aligns with Bush' 'fear the muslim' quest.

 

Well if I was chinese and could choose between China and Holland I would have chosen Holland.

Surinams chose also to stay in holland. When surinam became independent they were given the option to become dutch and live in Holland or to stay in Surinam. Half of the country chose for Holland.

Antilles have some nice carabian islands. They have no reason to complain.

And if you used to be a slave then you would have come to Holland some centuries later. The Africans from Ghana and Nigeria where the slaves were coming from, are now also migrating to the west.

Indonesians. Would you live in a place were there is always tensions between Muslims and Cristians??

 

If I was American I would also migrate to Holland. America is maybe a big Superpower but there is no more Fucked up place in the world then the US. Poverty, crime, Trailer Trash, Extremist cristians, Guns, Militias, Gangs, HillBillies, police brutality, serial killers, dangerous prisons, death penalty, change to send to war, a driving prestating mad culture. If you aint perfect you aint nothing. School kids going berserk and shoot their schoolmates death.
Alot is wrong in the US.

Did you know that 50% of the Americans have lost their teith by the age of 55. This is a true fact.

The biggest group of allochtonen in Holland is Britisch or American. I think the have better lives in Holland then in the US.

 

I dont know why people say the multicultural society thing isnt working. Like i said before, i started to really cause troubles after politicians started to make a big deal out of it. Fact is that it does work in a lot of cases. I have Indonesian neighbours, we get along just fine. And were not the only one. In the US for example theyve the Chinese quarter, the Italian neighbourhood etc. We dont have such things, i know that a lot of foreign people dont have a huge income, and therefore a lot live together in the more crappy neighbourhoods, but its not - or at least thats how it used to be - based on nationality. We really live in a mixed society, and that causes it to clash every now and then. I wish people could just let it be and have patience.

 

The problems already existed They were being ignored. And now the problem are being discussed but doing something about it is something else.
And it aint the Indonesians causing the troubles.

Zeedijk and the redlight district is Chinatown in Holland.
Amsterdam Bijlmer is a Black Ghetto
Amsterdam West is a Muslim Ghetto
Amsterdam North(a part of it) is a White Trash area
Amsterdam East is a nice mix of people.
Amsterdam South is an elite white neighbourhood
Amsterdam Centrum is Tourist area and rich people area.

 

HAHA. obvious you havent strayed far from home yet! 1st.america is "maybe" a big superpower? can u think of a bigger 1?poverty,crime,trailer trash,blah blah blah, all USA?LIKE NONE OF THAT EXIST'S anywhere else how narrow mindeed are you? an poverty look at youre own unemployment rate europe is around 10-11% isnt it? 4.4 here, an my god dangerous prison's! you forgot 1 thing "IT'S A PRISON" an as far as having a better life in holland than us ? how much do you make? hourly yearly? and for the LAST time this is a amsterdam forum not a BASH the USA forum. an btw im sure it's safe to say you've never been to usa just forming a opinion from what you read an see on tv

 

Definition of 'ghetto': [size=-1]A ghetto is a neighborhood or district in which members of a particular ethnic or racial group are forced to live by law or as a result of economics or social discrimination.

[/size][size=-1]So you are saying the blacks and muslims are forced to live in those areas? Interesting..

RLD being 'chinatown'? They'd wish.. RLD is an area on it's own, I think the Chinatown hardly stretches further than the Zeedijk, Nieuwmarkt and some of the streets connecting to the Nieuwmarkt. Plus there are Chinese shops & businesses there, it's not like all the Chinese people actually live there. The center of the city might be tourist area (like any other big city center), but the actual inhabitants of the center aren't predominantly 'rich people', since a lot of the places there are social/governmental housing (long waiting lists, families living there) and student places.

You're kinda stigmatizing and generalizing Amsterdam.. no offence
[/size]

 

I really don't like the USA.. but I really really really dislike my government as well.. and the more I spend time with the 'underdogs' in my country/Amsterdam, the more I come to dislike the general attitude of the locals towards 'different' people. Being an African refugee is apperantly enough reason for people to treat you like shit, as I could witness today.. I was soooo frustrated! The sheer arrogance of some people is really unbelievable. I tried arguing with the person (she didn't know shit about refugee papers and was making trouble because of it, blaming the refugee) but she didn't even want to hear.. damnit.

Face it.. racism, discrimination, capitalist jerks etc etc exists all over the world. USA or Holland.. it doesn't differ too much I'm afraid (but we have weed!! ) with the whole right wing policy thingie coming up.

 

If you dont want people on here to bash the US, then dont tell them that by bashing other place, for example Europe and specifically Holland. Since when does having a good life equal how much you make an hour? I know that the US is focused on money, and its getting worse here, but that doesnt mean that all of humanity is happier having more money. Btw, you may have a low unemployement rate, but thats also because you create crappy jobs like someone who packs your bags at the grocery store.

 

how was i bashing? only stating facts! try having a good life broke! lol crappy jobs?fyi im 40 already retired,is that even possible in holland? 2nd crappy jobs? like all the people working in the coffeshops verly making minimum wage? yes i talked to a few of them . sadly, but not surprising my benefit's alone where more than they made gross. an btw most the crappy jobs been shipped over seas or south to mexico yea we sill have plenty but i do need someone to pack my bags at the store, what? i should do it myself ? i think it safe to say are grocery baggers make atleast as much as any1 working in a coffeeshop, minus tip's of course!

 

Working in a coffeshop is a very relaxing job. Totally no stress.

 

1 of the few job's i would do for free!