Do any of you actually live in Amsterdam?

That's so true!

It's another thing that would always piss me off. Dutch people are so ready to offer up their opinions on who bad USA is and what needs to done to fix it. They don't even feel that they need to visit in order to offer these opinions. All they base their opinions on is the unwavering belief that all things Dutch are great and all things American are bad.

The Dutch bash the US at every opportunity yet don't allow non dutch people who actually live in their society the right to comment.

 

So why then, mister know-it-all do most moroccan people have a double passport, even the ones who are born here?

Again, I'm really starting to get the feeling that it has more to do with you then with the society around you.. I know a lot of non-dutch people (also non-white and non-dutch speaking OR with huge accents) who lead perfectly normal, happy lives. The only harassment they get is from the IND which you can't blame on the common folk.. no one likes the IND, or at least not me.

Well.. I haven't heard you say one positive thing yet. And please please stop with the generalisations! There are awefull, terrible dutch people, granted.. but that kind of people are everywhere! Same with the good people.. you might be unable to find them but it's really not that hard, seriously.

Well but you could just stop the whining and make the best out of it. It doesn't especially make you a nicer person you know, all this bitching and complaining. How do you ever expect to be liked by anyone (dutch or otherwise) if you are constantly being a crybaby? I mean.. if you want to generalize the Dutch than I'll do it for ya.. if something IS a Dutch trade than it is to just continue life and act normal no matter what happens. Your president for example can not even go to another country without that country having to close down highways and having all kinds of ridiculous security measures.. our ministers and even the queen can hop on a bike and ride through whatever city they like with hardly any police around. We just don't make a fuss about things.. and we kinda raise an eyebrow when someone is all dramaqueen..

Anyway.. I have the feeling that it doesn't really matter what anyone says.. you have your mind made up.. Dutch people can't hold critizism, we hate americans, we are racist and unfriendly. Well there ya go.. we don't need to hear that anymore from you ok? We got your point.

 

I think mafuman what mafuman was pointing out goes for every nation and country.. US bashing is generally seen as ok.. and that's .. well.. because your foreign policy sucks and you have a warmonger idiot as a president

That being said.. I dispise Verdonk, Balkenende, Wilders.. and so on

There.. we're even

Now want a list of my american friends so they can vouch that I don't hate the american people?

Sheesh dude.. you really have issues.

 

i had actually been reading my posts you would have noticed that i've pointed out on sevarl occasions that I'm Australian not American.

then again, had you been reading my posts, i guess you also would have read the part about how much i like holland care care about the direction in which it's heading.

again, you've just proved my inital point.

 

Why is the experience of your friends any more relevant than that of myself and my friends? I would suggest that it's a safe assumption to make that you are left leaning (as am i actually) and thus not representative of your average dutch person.

Head out to Almere and ask your average white dutch person what they think should be done with foreigners. Most of the folks out there believe that the IND is on the right path, only still too relaxed.

Please re-read my posts. I have mentioned several time how great Amsterdam is and how not all dutch people are of the type to which im referring. It is precisely this fact that makes me so mad at what you're all allowing to happen at the moment. All because you're too stubborn and refuse to take responsibility for past actions actions re: immigration.

haven't seen queen B riding around lately! even small time dutch ministers now have round the clock security everywhere they go! (oh wait, but that because of all those muslims right? not because the dutch are encouraging them!). you're point about not making a fuss is true of holland in the past, not anymore. you need to open your eyes and acknowledge the society that you know live in now. that time is over.


I don't really mind if people here think that Im a nice person or not. You seemed to have misread my intention.

Again, George Bush is not my president, I'm Australian (and Dutch!)

 

That's the problem about the Dutch, and the most important reason why I want to leave this country.
This country is so full of negativity you wouldn't believe it. Right vs left, immigrant vs "Dutch" and everyone is whining and whining.
I think it's because there's is just too much money and free time in this country. People are bored and are totally lost and confused. Confused about identity (do we have one?) and the fear about the upcoming fundamentalists.
Actually, did you know, at the moment we are facing the largest emigrationmove after the 50's? Back then everyone fled for the Russians, now it's about the fear of our fellow Dutch people... (btw, the most popular countries by far are Canada and Australia

www.emigratie.nl

 

Im afraid theyre not. Im Dutch, I go on there, I can handle criticism, yet they say the same thing. So theyre wrong. They assume that because youre Dutch you must be the most cold, closed-minded, intolerant, anti-anything undutch person that you can imagine. Well, with that attitude, im pretty sure you wont make friends among Dutch people anytime soon. Im not like that, but really, after getting yelled at i seriously dont feel the need to proof that im not like a 'real dutchie'.

 

I really cant imagine that people get pissed off when you speak English. It annoys the hell out of me that more and more dutch is replaced by English, and people dont seem to care. Ive nothing against English, nor English speaking people, but i dont like English taking over Dutch. Anyway, i just cant imagine people hating you speaking English while they hear and use it all the time.

You sound exactly like someone on expatica. Is it so odd for someone to ask that if you hate if you hate it so much here, it might be better to leave? Id ask people that in any place, if you hate where you live then i cant see how it makes you happy staying there, so why do you stay?

 

Ohhh thats the reason why we more and more adopt the American culture and language. Thats why we watch their films, listen to their music, etc. Most people here seem to bash Bush. Cut the crap about 'Dutch people', because it makes it sound as if every single person who happens to be born here in the Netherlands automatically is like that. Thats doing the exact same as some Dutch people do to 'foreigners', acting as if theyre not good enough simply because of the place they were born.

 

Dude, i always thought Australians were funny, friendly, happy people. Guess i was wrong.

 

Well.. you know.. it's really very simple.. if you don't like it, don't come here.. and stop bitching about how terrible the 'real dutchies' are. I wholeheartedly agree with Myrtje on that one.

For the Dutchies.. if you don't like the way the country is going (and I fully agree that the rightwing fear-policy is bringing down the country more than anything else) why leave instead of making it a better place? I for one am not leaving untill there is nothing left to fight for anymore! Belly of the beast, remember? Hell yeah..!

en niet vergeten nee te stemmen hè mensjes!

 

Same here. I can imagine he's fecking pissed off about the way things are going now, and about our society. I am too, i cant stand all those rightwing, racist crap. Im sure itll change though, people never seem to be able to balance things, they need evil to see that they need to appreciate the good. They need rightwing policies to see that the leftwing are so much better haha. Ill never leave Holland for eternity, id get homesick, but i want to live in Australia for a while. Ive always wanted to do that, i think ever since i could pronounce Australia. And whats so wrong with the constitution? Am i the only one on here who really just loves Europe?

 

I love Europe, love the diversity, the people, the cultures.. but I don't want our governments blending to one.. no United States of Europe, but seperate countries working together.. no grand army.. geen vrije marktwerking in de zorg en hulpverlening etc etc.. maar goed.. laten we hier niet in een politieke discussie verzanden

But yeah.. in comparisson to other countries ours is still pretty damn good and so are the people living in it.. ALL the people living in it!

 

I dont think thatll happen, people all over Europe are too fond of their own culture and language, i doubt itll all just blend and turn into one huge nation. Slovakia will never be like Ireland, nor will Portugal be the same as Estonia, so im not really worried. I just like the idea of being free to travel all around, of people everywhere having the same rights, and things that have to do with the environment can be handled on a larger scale. Anyway, youre right, this shouldnt turn into something political. So just to annoy our lovely Australian (Dutch, sorry ) friend, here's some 'oranjepride' as he calls it:

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion.. Jason, you'll never convince us..

 

well I am half dutch!


Re: the rest of your posts: I won't respond because although you seem intelligent, you are very young and your age does show.

I don't want to get into a debate with a 17 year old. sorry.

 

lol... that says sooo much about you! Wow.. really narrowminded! The wonder of youth is that people are still very openminded and idealistic.. my youngest friend is 10 years younger than me.. my oldest over 10 years older.. love'm equally and age really doesn't matter.. you can learn from everyone!

 

OMG.. what's this?? You discriminate because of age.. damn.. you're sad..
And how old is mister-know-it-all then?

 

i realise that. Nor is it my intention to do such a thing.

I'm glad that i got some discussion going and im glad that maybe some non dutch people read this thread and begin to understand that all is not well in the netherlands, not because I want everyone to hate the country, but because I want them to love it!

I've come to the conclusion that despite their own opinion regarding the international image of the netherlands as a tolerant utopia, most dutch people really seem to care about the netherlands reputation abroad.

They really like to hold their heads high in the international community and to be secure in the fact that their country has got it right. In the past Dutch people have had the right to do this, the right even to be somewhat judgemental towards countries like the US. However, that isn't the case anymore.

The climate of the netherlands had totally changed, it's no longer a tolerant place, however the international image has not yet caught up. The netherlands is still has an image which is entirely inaccurate.

Why do I want this to occur if I love the place so much, I hear you ask?

At the moment, not enough Dutch people are prepared to stand up and fight for spirit their country. This spirit i speak of is one of tolerance and freedom from persecution. At the moment it's going down the tube and no one seems to care all that much.

Maybe when Dutch people start to encounter others from overseas who've heard of Holland because of the police state that it's becomming and the widely endorsed bullying tactics of the IND etc, and not because of the great pot, then they might finally do something.

If they see their international reputation heading south, then I believe that they will put a stop to all this and restore holland to the great place that it once was and can be again. When dutch people feel a little of what Americans feel when travelling (y'know that slight embarassment, hiding the passport etc), they Im convinced that they won't stand for this crap anymore.

 

I'm laughing my ass off! Your so stupid and pathatic, why are you here on these forums? Everyone here has the right to express what they feel and think.

And another thing, I finally understand what you mean about intolerance and being Dutch...