Do you think there is a god?

Kumar

Occam is an agnostic.
His method to understanding does not allow him to call a thing
a fact. Without conclusive evidence.
There is much indicative evidence for direction.
But not conclusive.

And if the evidence never becomes conclusive in this life.
So be it.

Occam dos not desire to believe in a god.
He already believes in humanity.
And that is enough.

Occam

 

"Occam is an agnostic.
His method to understanding does not allow him to call a thing
a fact. Without conclusive evidence.
There is much indicative evidence for direction.
But not conclusive.

And if the evidence never becomes conclusive in this life.
So be it.

Occam dos not desire to believe in a god.
He already believes in humanity.
And that is enough.

Occam"


Dear Occam,

Thank you for your conclusive post.

You believe in humanity and yes, that is enough. But Occam can not be agnostic. I do not believe.

This God word is making all the problems. More so when religions come first in between. However, I shall wait for evidence to become conclusive for you in this life time only. And yes, it is going to happen.
I shall wait for that day and hear it from your mouth.
With lots of love........Kumar.

 

Well, you have proven your awesomeness to me.... and to all those who have found that hell awaits.

 

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

We should be able to know and feel God by our day-to-day life experiences, from others' experiences and from nature(There can not be a better teacher / Guru).

We should know by ourselves that there is something beyond our natural understanding, something inexplicable, some super natural power. And we are simply helpless in front of that.

To understand and judge things/happenings by reasoning, the way Occam does, is a very good way to believing someday that yes, there is something which everything fails to explain.
Hope, it happens to all of us.

With love.........Kumar.

 

Yes, I do agree with what you are saying...as usual your words are beautiful. Indeed it is a bit inexplainable...perhaps that is why I am so easy to say that maybe...in a way...everyone, every culture, is right. I believe that there is something beyond what we know and concieve and perhaps that is why it is in our nature to question it...through reason and others we can see our own conclusions, I had stated before what mine were at the present, but no...we indeed can't go around believing that we are absolutely right, no questions asked...we can just share what we think...but in the end thinking is not enough...I don't think reason is enough...yes...it is as you said that we should feel God...forget everything that goes with it and just give in...

Wow...I don't know if that made any sence...if it didn't ignore me and carry on

 

Kharkov [can occam call you that?..The city name is easier to remember
and so historically significant.]

Awesomeness?
Occam pointed out that maybe we have much in common.
Millions play guitars in bands... And listen to the same music.

And occam asks...what is 'hell'
For he is fierce in rejection of the concept...
It is absurd.

Occam

 

Kumar.

My friend.

Wether you hear it from occams mouth will be a result of reality.....
Events in reality.[phenomena]
And the method that occam uses to interpret such.

If phenomena occur that occam interprets as conclusive evidence
for the existence of a god..

Then so be it.

Occam

 

The idea that we all 'should' feel God around us in the world is obviously insufficient. I see a complex wonderful world, not all of which I understand. I am in awe of the world -- but I am an atheist. Why does the wonderfulness of the world imply the existence of a deity? Many very intelligent and spiritual people do not make this connection so it is obviously not a 'given' it is one subjective interpretation.

 

If i need to give you permission...

Good to know of millions of minions.

Hell is a little s&m for all the sick fux out there. I am not one to say i did not need hell at one point, or at least the threat of eternal hell to motivate me out of my mundane understanding of things into a higher understanding.

Kharkov

 

Some people have natural musical talent. Some people have mathematical talent. Some people have sight. Some people don't.

 

If you're claiming that atheists have a natural talent to see the truth, I think that's prejudicial. Isn't it fun being vague? And so easy...!

 

I love it. I gotta take a shower cuz my hole is itchy... Specificity is just as hot as vagueness.... Even when I lie I tell the truth.

Your quote from voltaire is awesome. I love Satan like I love God.... in a very dirty slutty way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veinglory
The idea that we all 'should' feel God around us in the world is obviously insufficient. I see a complex wonderful world, not all of which I understand. I am in awe of the world -- but I am an atheist. Why does the wonderfulness of the world imply the existence of a deity? Many very intelligent and spiritual people do not make this connection so it is obviously not a 'given' it is one subjective interpretation.

And replyed to by Midnight......
"You cannot make such a statement, that was my connection for 10 years! But lately, things just haven't been the same. There's deffinately something going on, Hell, I am a scientist, I will exhaust all other possibilities, before claiming something to be an unexplainable phenomenon, but it did take this occurance to make me think things over once again!"

Midnight

Occam must agree.
The complexity and ballance of reality..Is, to put it mildly...
AWSOME

A single weed in your garden is a structure of such information complexity
As to require all our resources as a race to understand it.

Such 'direction'..such tendency towards complexity.
Is what occam calls indicative evidence for a 'god'
To use the vulgar term...

And the ulimate in complexity. Beings that can understand reality.
Seems to be the point...

Are we such? Only mildly

Occam

 

obviously we are complex and so is the world around us because we must be complex to function as we do, thus our scale is one that things we notice are also very complex. The universe is very big. It seems to me the nature of things to form into patterns, and of cource they do, no matter what the properties of a thing was if there were a billion of it it would form a pattern, now what would prove that some driven intention placed everything here would be if it was not in a naturally ocuring pattern, just stuck that way, like a sculpture made by a person. It is a big jump to a big conclution to say that since you don't understand how everything got here that an omnipotent, self concious, benevolent, partialy human-like, being put it all here. Thats just what would be the first explaination to pop into a humans mind if asked how stuff got how it is. I just don't see a reason to lock in an idea of why things are how they are, and than try to change how you see things to fit it, why not change your concept of how the world works by what you see, that seems like a better way to learn to me. I belive that many religeoons have been infected over time with atempts to make them into tools to control people, and now they carry many poisonous implications, many, in their modern common interpritations encourage, over population, wasting of resources and other activities that count on this world being temporary.

 

You don't have to beleive that such a being exists to beleive in a force at work here besides 'random collection.' There are many of us that beleive (based on a scientific analysis of chaos vs. direction and randmoness vs. structure) that something Other is at work here without any pre-conceived notion of a omnipotent, benevolent or otherwise even definable mack-daddy-god figure. There is a middle road.

We see very little of what exists. I am not 'locked into' anything - always ready for re-interpretation. There are many things which can not be explained by what we 'know'. And always what we know will be very limited. Occasionaly you must step back and see the bigger picture and draw conlusions based on probability.

I couldn't agree more.

 

From SvgGrdnBeauty :

"Yes, I do agree with what you are saying...as usual your words are beautiful. Indeed it is a bit inexplainable...perhaps that is why I am so easy to say that maybe...in a way...everyone, every culture, is right. I believe that there is something beyond what we know and concieve and perhaps that is why it is in our nature to question it...through reason and others we can see our own conclusions, I had stated before what mine were at the present, but no...we indeed can't go around believing that we are absolutely right, no questions asked...we can just share what we think...but in the end thinking is not enough...I don't think reason is enough...yes...it is as you said that we should feel God...forget everything that goes with it and just give in...

Wow...I don't know if that made any sence...if it didn't ignore me and carry on"

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

Wish everybody could think so simply and beautifully. I assure you, this only makes sense. Thank you.

We are mainly three types of people. Let me tell you a very short story.

There were three extremely poor families. One day it so happened that the heads of the families tried their best but could not earn anything to feed the wives and small children.

It was a very hot and sultry day, the three men were very upset in their respective homes and were nearly in tears because the small children were hungry and crying, the wives were restless and cursing their fates. The husbands did not know what to do.

Then in front of every house, in turn, a cart with loads of food arrived and the boy with the stuff just said one gentleman had purchased all the stuff from their shop and had advised them to deliver at those addressses.

Now the first man simply told his wife to quickly take everything inside and not to bother much about who had sent it. He also said that may be there is a mistake in the address, so before anybody comes and claims it back let us quickly eat everything.

The second man told his wife with little annoyance, " I do not know why somebody should do this. I can very well earn. Anyway, just take them inside and let us eat". Then he turned back to the cart-boy and told him, "If you meet that gentleman please convey our thanks and tell him that I shall pay for everything. Also tell him that we do not need his favour and help."

The third man and his wife could not say anything, tears were rolling down their cheeks, they started crying uncontrollably. The man managed to say,"Who is this gentleman who came to know about our plight and is so kind to send this to feed my children and save them." They thanked the gentleman and with folded hands they prayed for him. The man told his wife,"You take the stuff inside and eat with the children. I am coming." His wife was worried and asked him, "You are also very hungry, where are you going? Come and eat with us." The man told her, " How can I eat without finding that gentleman who knows about us,who is so kind and compassionate ? Let me go and at least try to find him and convey my gratitude and thanks."

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty, nearly all of us fall in the above three categories(Tamo,Rajo and Sattva).

With lots of love......Kumar.

 

I like that story...thank you

 

Say perhaps that neither the Bible nor science were wrong...just how we see it...Say that 6 days to God is 6 Billion (or however) to us...then it makes sence...what if evolution did happen at God's hand...and you say why didn't he just snap his fingers and poof! May be he wanted to build from the bottom up....::shrug:: I heard a story once that each step of evolution was God showing off to the angels...like "See that...now watch this..." and making something even greater than that before...because God did do the "7 days" thing in those steps...maybe its a time continuum thing...

 

IMO, people worship only one thing and that is themselves. Everything that a person does is geared towards boosting their own ego. The person doing charity work does so because it makes them feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they are better than others because they are doing something worthwhile. The people who preach whatever religion that they belong to do so for the same reason, it boosts their own ego. Even the people posting on here, me included, are doing so because it gives them some sort of attention or recognition that will help boost their ego
Compassion, love and caring all contribute to boosting the ego of the recipiant of these emotions but, ultimitely, they are actions carried out by a person wanting to boost their own ego.
The beleif in god is simply another part of the wish to boost ones own ego.
The only god that a person truely beleives in is themselves.
This are my understanding of life at the moment but this will no doubt change as I gain more knowledge.

 

You are correct, but it doesn't make humans bad or anything. Living organisms, inherently, are selfish. The purpose of life is to continue, and that needs the trait of self-preservation. It's soooooo neat that out of a few simple grows all the splendor of every facet of life that we see today.