Does God Exist?

Of course there is a God.

 

so confident with no proof whatsoever.

 

Prove it? Prove what? That God does truley exist? If you want proof of God, The Lord, or any other name or metaphore you may want to call him. All you have to do is.... Open your eye's.

A tree, a plant, a human, an animal nor any live or non-living organisim is explained through God.

To ask someone to prove that god exist, is like asking if water is wet, or air is breathable. It's proven itself time and time again, it's your obligation to believe or not.

Does God really exist? The answere is quite clear. Perhaps you are asking the wrong question?

God does exist. Love is real. Hate is real. And unfortunatly most of all Sin is real. Questioning God or God's love is a sin.

 

precisely!

and what we togather make of it for each of us to experience is every bit as much the work of our doing so, whatever else may or may not also exist.

this is what we can do something about.

god or gods, if they should happen to exist, cool.
if they don't, well we'll just have to keep getting along somehow just the same.

=^^=
.../\...

 

hahah. Another "tin can" explanation for the existence of the flying spaghetti monster. What does "opening one's eyes" (another tin can metaphor) have to do with proof of this imaginary god of your's existence? My eyes are open...I see no proof of the pink dragon in the garage. Until you can explain it better than "open your eyes" you might wish to try this post again.

no. A tree, plant, humans and other living or non living oraganism existence is not proof that an alien in the sky exists.

If you claim the existence of god, it is your obligation to prove it, not mine to believe it.

the answer is not clear at all, if it were, you wouldn't be clouding it up with " a tree is proof, a human is proof, a pile of dog shit is proof"

so does the pink dragon in my garage.

apparently stupidity is real too.

roflmao @ Questioning God or God's love is a sin. that's too fucking funny.

 

God?...the great curse of civilization...exist? You gotta be kiddin'!

 

amen!! preach it brother!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!! YOU CAN SEE, BROTHER!!!!!!!

 

If you know how to think musically, then it all makes a lot more sense.

Just for the sake of argument, think of each thing that exists (a stone, a tree, a poodle, a person, time, love, thought, you, me, etc.) as a note. Now, consider a chord containing all notes. God is simply the name for this chord. What we call God is the essence of the chord, not only the notes themselves, but also, more importantly, the relationship between all of the notes. God is also the name of the composer, whose identity, like that of any other composer, is inseperable from his work.

In one way or another, this is really what all legitimate religious/spiritual authorities are actually referring to.

Peace and Love

 

If you know how to think logically, then it all makes a lot more sense.

Just for the sake of argument, think that our language is based on conceptual paradigms. Conceptual paradigms are the lenses through which we perceive reality and the very foundation of our language is based on conformity and authority.

Monotheistic religions define hierarchal bureaucracy and our government is one. The idea that there is a separation between religion and government is a joke. Jews, Moslems, Christians…all from the same mold. Monotheism is NOT passive!

In one way or another, this is really what all religious/spiritual authorities are actually referring to.

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg

 

the real answer to this farcical diatribe, is to ask a question based on it's sophomoric suggestion of "god as a chord" would be:

is god a C# diminished chord or a Bbm with a Maj7. To wit, I suggest god is nothing more than a pregnant 13th chord with alterations too busy to mention.

Of course, all of that means absolutely nothing which is kind of what the argument suggests. God is a chord is nothing more than god is an asshole, a moron or most importantly, an imaginary figure which man hath created in its own image to settle and control humanity.

 

nowwwwww, we're getting somewhere. religion as bereaucracy---this is the essence of religion since the day man created it.

 

I am all for logic. It's kind of like conceptual math. It does have its limits, however. A (hypothetically) purely logical mind is incapable, by definition, of comprehending those illogical aspects of reality such as aesthetic quality, ecstacy or mirth.

What kind of sense have you gotten from logic? What has logic taught you?

To what do you conform? Which conceptual paradigms do you leave unquestioned? Why do you reject any of them?

Are there any conceptual paradigms you want to get rid of? Dharma/Torah? Moksha/T'Shuva? Samadhi/Yechida? Before you trash these "conceptual paradigms" shouldn't you experience them, look through their lenses, find out more about all of this?

There is always far more mystery than anyone is prepared to comprehend. Some are more prepared than others, however.

I have a friend who believes unexplained lights in the sky are evidence of extraterrestrial visitors from Ceti Alpha III. He also believes that a worldwide conspiracy suppresses all public knowledge of this. Others believe that Monotheistic religions exist solely to define hierarchal bureaucracy.

Conspiracy theories arise out of an unformed desire to assign meaning to (and impose responsiblity for) an unknown that one feels powerless to examine.
Rarely, if ever, are conspiracy theories either logical or true.

Whenever you make a statement about religion, positive or negative, you present yourself as a religious authority. You can believe whatever you think or percieve to be true, but I have every right to question why you need me to believe you.

So . . . Why should I believe you?

Peace and Love

 

I voted no, but it all depends on your define of God, which varies for each person and religion.

It also depends on your definition of existance. Do dreams exist? Do ideas exist? Do we exist? Should we care?

 

We can't say for sure.

Personally I think it's nature, and god is not judging us like we see in most religions. We are free to sin and destruct and disturb nature's balance and the only damnation we're gonna get is from our own. Of course, since we have a mind, can think and are able to do things apart from nature's instinct we can trick ourselves with our ideas about God and our afterlife. But we can't be sure.

All we have are eachother and we kind of messing it up, because we think there's more (personal salvation by god, but also satisfaction by wealth or power, etc.).

 

Brother Varuna, Thanks.

Yes… A (hypothetically) purely logical mind is in this case is like a head sitting on a table with no arms or legs…it can think but not act.

Hmmm…logic has taught me to use the information that I know to be true to question and debate assertions that are based on faith but demands conformity.

The nature of human nature is Mother Nature and the mother of nature is the garden.

Reject? I try to reject only that which tells me that there is NO reject button!

(hypothetically) a conceptual paradigm is like a book in the library that you are free to choose. In reality the Monotheistic (perceptual) paradigm insinuates imperialistic conformity creating a bureaucracy of Pit Bull Bible Thumpers more than willing to break down your door to demand conformity. No…it’s not the book…it’s the imperialistic behavior that it incites. Take the imperialism out of monotheism and it becomes just another book on the shelf or in my case in the bathroom.

Yes…from the darkness comes the light. I love the darkness!

[/color]
No…Monotheistic religions exist to:

· define hierarchal bureaucracy

· demand conformity

· legitimize authority

· enslave the mind

· empower the priests and judges

· etc…

Yep! I’d put Monotheism at the top of that conspiracy list.

No…Be clear…I am no religious authority. I have no authority. I do have my truth as you do yours.

I am a wondering soul casting off my veil…I’ve found a beautiful oasis and I’m just letting everybody know that the water is outstanding.

My message is to trust your intuition and you will know right and wrong!

You should not!

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” Buddha

 

Dear Benther Dondat,

Thank You.

For all it may be worth, I think you are quite right to refuse the ignorance, intolerance, baseless hatred and destruction found within the big, Western, monotheistic religions. Ideally, those things aren't supposed to have anything to do with the tradition. In fact, that was exactly the problem each one of the prophets sacrificed his/her life to correct.

But the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition is such a deeply ingrained part of the human story that it is virtually impossible to know the complete scope of its influence on the Western paradigm. For example, the fact that you refuse to accept what you perceive (right or wrong) to be an evil IS, arguably, as much an expression of this tradition as a Seder or an Easter Mass.

I find it somewhat enigmatic and perplexing that no one knows enough or is wise enough to say with any real authority which of our conceptual paradigms are directly attributable (positively or negatively) to the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition. You may be surprised, however, to know that most of the really big players had exactly the same concerns about this stuff as you do. If you read the stories of Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, Lao Tsu, Martin Luther, Guru Nanak, all of them rebelled (creatively of course) against the ways religion, and its followers, were being abused.

Now, of course, anything as big as religion is going to cast a shadow somewhere. And as is the case in any institution, there are those whose contribution is a low quality representation of the ideal. I don't know why, but there seems to be a trend lately of defining things and people by their worst. I would like to see that change.

I wouldn't define Rock and Roll by the music of Air Supply or Michael Bolton, not when we had the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Yes, Led Zeppelin, The Clash, XTC, The Replacements, Nirvana, etc.

I wouldn't define America by the words and actions of Duh-bya, not when we've had Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, John Steinbeck, The Marx Brothers, Louis Armstrong, Neil Armstrong, Lance Armstrong, etc.

I wouldn't define religion by the words and actions of Jerry Falwell, Osama Bin Laden or Torquemada, not when we have Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Gandhi, The Dalai Lama, Rebbe Manachem Mendel Schneerson, J. Krishnamurti, Amma . . . to mention a few from just the past century.

It may be a worthwile to question what others have done with their inspiration. But the equally important question is: What are you doing with yours? What do you think is sacred and what are you doing about it?

Whatever your beliefs happen to be, how enlightened are you in your observance and practice of your religion (regardless of what you call it)?

To return to the musical analogy, the question that matters most is: Regardless of your love or your hate or your indifference for others' music, what is YOUR song?

Peace and Love

 

Dude, well put.

 

Brother Varuna,

...the lyrical dance of the seasons, tides, heartbeat…in rhythmic harmony with the words of peace, love and happiness.

The profound dilemma of the western mind is that the path to enlightenment is not a journey but a realization. Language is the way that we as human beings communicate, collaborate, compete and on and on and Monotheism is the bed rock foundation of all jewish-christian-muslim faiths. Monotheism is the bedrock foundation of the English language. Monotheism defines a hierarchal bureaucracy and our government is one. There is NO separation between church and state!!! The church IS the state. And you and I are pawns and priests of imperialistic capitalism.

There is no separation except in our collective perception.

The original sin is the idea that you and are in reality separate from each other and the garden. If you embrace god…you’re fucked and if you don’t embrace god you’re fucked. Once culture is programmed to the delusion of the egocentric self …we now have “I’s” that cannot see the obvious. Wholy becomes holy. We become you and I, our earth becomes yours and mine. Mind is programmed in a way in which we are unable to calmly question the relevance of God. We cannot realize because we do not have “I’s” that can see our spiritual communion with nature or each other.

I hold the monotheistic perceptual paradigm responsible for the entranced enslavement of the human mind. The common defining foundation of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religion is NOT the One god but the profoundly significant infusion of the abstract authority commonly referred to as the “put no other god before me” clause.

It’s here that I see a crack in traditional logic although it makes perfect sense in the “traditional” way we think…I don’t see the top down hierarchal authoritarian mindset as workable. In our culture today I am convinced that we are witness to the natural death of god and frankly believe that we should be celebrating. Every day that we continue to attach life support to a brain dead corpse is another day of imperialistic capitalism and environmental and spiritual degradation. .

God is dead! And I’m not sure if he has ever been more than a corrupt illusion of a deluded mindset.

It’s time to put the "privileged" money changers at the temple gate to work…honest work…tending to nature, community and our spiritual salvation. It’s time for our CEO’s, priest, judges, intellectuals, teachers, police, politicians, bureaucrats, technocrats and you and me to stop polluting this wondrous earth and to start teaching our kids how to be good, honest, hard working, compassionate, empathetic and peace loving citizens.

How complicated is it to want a government that promotes honesty, a spiritual balance with nature, self sufficiency, hard work, love of community and the sacredness of life? The irony is that it is the intellectuals that have conspired, colluded and schemed to manipulate the working class by corrupting our spiritual, educational and social institutions. (The intellectuals are pissing in our beds because they are to damn lazy and corrupt to compost.)

One could argue that when our intellectual elites start getting their just dues that our capitalistic markets will be dealing with an overabundance of tar and feathers.

The only way we are going to clean this planet and ourselves up is from the bottom up!

We the people!

The good man is the friend of all living things. M. Gandhi

 

I admit that it sounds good indeed, but I don't see how we (the people) can put the 'money changers' to honest work. What if they don't want to? We don't want to force them, or do we?

Like Varuna pointed out, almost everything has two sides. I don't know if you mean intellectuals literally, though?

 

Brother Asmodean,

It seems our paths do intertwine!

You’re right…to imply dominance is to revert back to the subconscious zombie drone chant. I can put out a fire but I can’t put anyone to work.

In a profound sense we are the money changers. We are all in this together.
The money changers have no more inherent power then the poorest of the poor. The irony is that we are all rich beyond belief. As long as we-the-people feed the lie…dominance lives…The king has no clothes! The transformation has begun. As We-the-people change then they (we) have NO choice! The irony is that they is we-the-people. If human kind made a pact to be honest and responsible we would celebrate with every breath our wondrous good fortune.

We are children of the garden. Mother Nature feeds us, shelters us, we are the water we drink and the air we breathe

Literal intellectual…I suppose here too I exaggerate a bit. No…I’m referring to intellectuals that exalt their own superiority…dominance.

What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea. M. Gandhi