Does God Exist?

Not a good answer. Some believers believe as you say obviously since those are the beliefs you profess but not all believers in the bible. There is no prerequisite of agreeing with gods "previous message the bible." There is not even agreement about what the messages in the bible are. There are not two powerful forces that can do magic tricks. Children can perform magic tricks. What is beneficial and building up is a matter of timing and what is beneficial in one moment may not be in the next.

When we see christ we shall be like him. Your version of events is simply claiming for yourself the ability to judge god and everyone else. The final judgement that awakes the dead is your's against your brother and therefor yours against god as your brother is created in the likeness and image of god. This judgement is a barrier erected against the perception of god and against the perception of love. Yo cannot love what you have judged against, i.e. your brother. You set yourself up as judge and jury without ever beholding anything genuine. If the light in us is darkness, how great the darkness. If you do not understand what this means consider some believe and see that satan is the ruler of the world!

It is pertinent to add that though they say it is there or over over yonder the kingdom of god is within you.

 

I agree Meagain, challenging eachother's beliefs out of personal interest or because we have an opposite stance is of course not the problem. It is the disrespecting parts. And those can't be denied. It is actually the thing that triggered me to ramble on about this point.
To say I am conflating challenging people's beliefs with disrespecting them is simply false. A turd could see the disrespect that goes along with this challenging. And yes, I agree that the disrespect is completely unnecessary and also the main reason the other person is eventually triggered into uncivil behaviour (we can hardly blame them if we would be objective and respect everyone to the same extent as we ourselves like to get/be respected).

Sure I can see how people conclude that someone's beliefs or explanations of a question are not sound in reality or leave something to desire for them and that makes it why that perception can be disrespected, but it is the same when people dismiss every theistic belief or spiritual faith as delusional (fierceflower). As long as we can not discuss this topic with an open mind, it will always result in some pityful versus contest/argument. Asking the other person an impossible question and then rub it in that it is unsatisfactory answered. Hey, the guy tried for pete's sake. Of course you won't agree with it when you find any belief in a deity ridicilous in the first place. We don't have to.
Don't be an asshole because you experience an overly strong sense of being right, as it is fair to point out this is what has caused the behaviour many atheists are agitating against where it comes to religion/religious people. So they simply fall in the same trap assuming their right makes it legit to shit and convict others with opposite beliefs/thoughts. Which in reality makes them unreasonable, unpragmatic and the opposite of progressive (while proclaiming at the same time that they are all those things ). We are not talking about religious people cutting of clits here, or people that force their opinion on abortion on non religious people. We are simply talking about if God exists or not. Even if we have a discussion partner that takes the bible too literally (for our own liking) we can handle their posts, views and explanations without disrespect and demanding absurd things (like certainty, being convinced, or proof, etc.).

Mr. Writer, can you not see this point that I am making? Am I unreasonable here?

 

There is rational basis for calling for opening the mind of one coming to such conclusions. Logic and faith are not opposing terms. They are terms with different meanings that can work in concert. Your criteria for belief is, I'll believe it when I see it. However, there is nothing you can behold as true save that you yourself have determined for yourself it is so, and not having that self determination, there is no truth that you will recognize whether true or not.

 

How can anyone be "right"in this discussion?
Sure, peeps can say this and that very eloquently, dancing around words with a flourish...but in then end? It turns out to be simply, everyone sharing their personal reasons why they believe what they do. Only the fanaticos attempt to persuade another to change their belief system

 

I don't think the idea of respect should be a qualification we should moderate. It is not true that we can tell when someone is being disrespectful we can only tell when our own measure seems challenged. For example I don't take anything said as personally insulting because my sense of identity is not bound up in a particular idea. The argument about who is right or who is wrong is kind of shadow boxing around issues. Sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong and at all times I have the ability to change my mind. We can also imagine insult where none is intended. Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me. The fact that the moderator is unsure about what should or shouldn't be edited speaks to the poverty of the measure.

 

Friends however will reason with each other.

 

We write from life ... having awakened from a dream , visited a dying old man , played some music ,
realized a new voice , a little bell in the sky . I might not be writing to you , even now , not to be simple .

 

By not insisting they are right? By not becoming too certain or conclusive about things we can not be absolutely certain or conclusive about (except imo the agnostic conclusion that we can not be certain but I proposed the question to challenge this conclusion as being the most reasonable. Hope they with other convictions will do so ).
I agree, it does not have to be about who is being the most right and definitely not about convicing eachother either. A thing like convicing someone will just happen on itself sometimes when one happens to consistently make a good and conclusive argument. When it doesn't happen, should be fine. We're just conversing here in the end (I thought).

Maybe some can't be friends with others for some reason but at least they could be friendly. It would clearly benefit the sharing of thoughts.

With friendly I do not mean stop challenging eachother to be clear! But yes, it is all in the way we do that.

 

In concert,
Revelation proceeds from god to the individual, known in secret, it does not proceed from the individual to god or from person to another person. We can and do find ourselves in harmony with god and may appear to each other in that way.

 

Let me ask you Asmo.. why is it even important to challange another's conviction, as opposed to merely inquire , in order to simply facilitate ones personal understanding ?

 

Even enemies are lonely without each other.

 

I hope to appeal my conviction?

 

Sigh..Everyone wants to be the one who discovers the secrets of the universe.
Wouldnt it surprise the living crap out of many if GOD stood for Good Old Devil..
Who are you to say that your logical conclusion is nymore logical than someone who believes differently?

 

Why appeal it? If YOU are comfortable with it, and it directs your thoughts and actions in a way that are moraly sound, isnt that the important thing?

 

To whom are you appealing ? To others, ? Are you simply looking for validation of your personal concepts?

 

Knowledge is, being shared. We can come to consensus and our scientific papers become subject to peer review. I don't know if surprise is a motivation for shitting. I also don't think everyone wants to be the one who discovers secrets. I think everyone is motivated by a sense of rightness which fundamentally comes down to self interest.

 

It is merely one way to inquire. I am not the one focussing on challenging other people's beliefs as the main way to take notice of and understand other peoples perceptions. But I can see how others find it important and can agree with it that it should be able to be done (but when it is merged with disrespect we can point that out and can't blame the one challenged in the end for not wanting to play along anymore, if they get consistently disrespected)

 

I think we are on the same page about this.

 

Self interest indeed.

 

It is an interesting thing, that saying..sticks and stones may break bones but words will never harm. Amazing how most do not comprehend just how much of an affect words DO have .