Does God Exist?

No one knows, but voluntary/involuntary inculcated/forced belief has been the motivating factor/s for moneymaking/power taking/ murder inducing/ slavery apologists for the length of time it has existed. I think that to posses a regular conscience with the concomitant respect of others would suffice. Don't see much of it. So it goes.

 

Which Gods?

 

Any gods. We're not fussy.

 

Go YHWH!!

 

Gotta love her burning bush

 

I'm no artist but Windows 8 Fresh Paint is awesome!

Who's the thumb that lacks a sense of humor? Heh, I know who you are. lmao

 

I think that ANYONE who keeps pushing their ideas down someone else's throat...is just looking for control of some kind.....

A normal person says something once or twice and then the other person should always have the freedom to take it or leave it....

 

Belief in God must be relegated to faith alone, and cannot rely on logical proof. Christians have known this for hundreds of years, but there are still VERY vocal sects which try and push a "scientific" view of God into the discussion.

They end up looking very silly because their proofs are either patently false or logically impossible.

Kierkegaard had a wonderful opinion of this. He was a devout Christian who saw the folly of his society around him trying to act like the New Testament was an historical work of literature; he said that the story of God existing, sending his Son down in human form to teach us, then killing him in order to save our souls, and Christ rising on the third day etc, was such a RIDICULOUS story that it can never be considered in any logical or empirical domain. The story is so absolutely outlandish that anybody who truly believes it must be seized at every waking moment by the sheer stupendous weight of their beliefs; "not only is God real, but he has died for me that I may live eternally if I just follow the example of His Son".

Kierkegaard said that there can be no Christians who just accept this as a "fact", the same kind of "fact" as "the sky is blue", because this fact is just utterly universe shattering. No christian can be such a thing if he or she does not completely change their entire lives around this life-transforming narrative. There can be no such thing as "cafeteria christianity", where one chooses which portions of the faith are acceptable within an already established worldview; one's worldview must be completely replaced and dominated by the legend of Jesus. After all, you either believe, or you don't believe.

Kierkegaard asks all christians to look hard at their lives, their commerce, their relationships, their political philosophies, and ask whether this is something they could proudly present to Lord Jesus Christ in person, without a moment of hesitation or embarassment. I suspect this test would not be passed by 99% of Christians, and that was his point.

 

Please explain the "underived" experience with a concrete example. What provoked it? What happened during it?

Thanks.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism

I'm definitely not as well versed in this as you are, but I know enough to make me dangerous...

Bottomline is, God cannot be proven. He cannot be shown to exist.

 

the little whirlwind blessed my new drums , then travelled on . i am a
drum-maker .

 

The trouble is, what people think that means vs. what it actually means.

 

something I have been saying for a loooong time, yet few seem to grasp the implications

good to see you around, Sir. :2thumbsup:

 

Peace,

I said on this thread about a month ago that I believe that there is a God, but that has changed. I'm an agnostic now, meaning I don't believe nor disbelieve that there is a God (by "God" I mean an entity that should be worshipped.)

Can anyone convert me back to believing that there is a God?

 

The existence of Toblerone is more than enough proof of His almighty existence, and if you don't agree with me I'll beat you with a large, pointy rock.

 

Your analysis "Kierkgaard's" seems to be based on popular Christian doctrine.

 

Kierkegaard greatly influenced Christianity, so I'm not surprised you've heard something like this before. I would disagree that it is the popular doctrine however; perhaps only in the words that are spoken, but in the message taken home, it's very much mostly a cafeteria phenomenon. Look at the whole "religious right" which dominates the discussion in america; they are antithesis to christians in many ways.

 

I meant that people like to dilute Christianity into a few concrete beliefs that are very shallow and you either believe them or not. I would argue after reading the texts that Christianity is much more nuanced than that. It helps to let the Bible speak for itself with an open mind and not let it be fed to you by others that only focus on certain things in very rigid ways.

 

I would agree that it is better to pick for yourself what you will and will not care about from the bible and not let others do it for you. However I would argue this is still "cafeterianism" and that once you start saying "well SURE jesus is my lord and saviour, but THIS part on page 42 about wearing certain clothing, well THATS just a historical curiosity", then you are on very thin metaphysical ice. Is the bible a real thing or isn't it? If shellfish and garment rules don't float your boat, why should the other stuff? It seems to be all one package. Nowhere in the bible are there instructions to skip to chapter x for the important stuff. And in the bible god says and does some pretty 'interesting' things.

 

The Bible is a real thing if you internalize it. Then it's not a bunch of stories that happened in the past, but something that has power in you right now. That's why the new testament writers talk about the word of life planted in you. The main message is very simple. Remember all the sinners and outcasts flocked toward Jesus not the one's who believed and acted perfectly.