Does God Exist?

hi olderwaterbrother, im glad you enjoyed the lecture. having seen this same lecture in many different universities and seeing him do the Q&A portion at the end of many of these events, i can recognize this classic misunderstanding as it is one of the most common questions in these events. it so common to people being exposed to this material for the fist time that professor Krauss has addressed this issue a few times.

his claim is: sub-atomic particles come from nothing.

common misenterpretation: since there is "energy" in empty space, by definition it is no longer "nothing" or "empty space".

this is one of the classic paradoxes with quantum mechanics at this sub-atomic level, and the paradox is that the space between quarks where there is "nothing" is actually filled with particles that are appearing and disapearing very fast. the math that describes the location of these particles in space-time in its most basic terms is a probability wave which cannot simultaneously pin-point the particles location and time.

in math (but not in reality), since we are working with wave prabability functions, we can say that the small space between the quarks are simultanously empty and has particles at the same time. in reality what is happening is that empty space is producing particles in what seems to be randmon spots and those particles disapear very fast, so the overall energy is slightly above zero, but only because these particles are apearing and disapearing in random spots. this is what scientists describe as dark matter, or virtual particles.

the fact is, there are spots in that are in reality empty spaces, in which particles come into existance randomly and then disapear very fast. when a particle appears there is an energy and it is no longer empty space. over time the "average" or "wave probability" of the particles being in that "empty space" is slightly above zero so depending on how you look at it, it may or may not be empty space. but just to be very clear, there emtpy space is really "empty" the "energy" which exists in that space comes from particles apearing from nothing.


this is a complex idea to understand because if it is correct that means when you have empty space, it wont be empty for long and particles will always be popping in and out of existance in that empty space, but where do the particles come from? they dont come from the energy in the empty space becuase the energy is a result of these partcles comming in and out of existance. the particles are truly comming from nothing.

 

My view is that subjectivity negates the notion of omnibenevolence. The attribute becomes illogical if you throw in a couple other "omni" qualities which theists often attribute to God and since that quality is on such shaky logical grounds already, there is nothing really that suggests to me it absolutely permeates the divine.

i find it fairly disgusting you are content with rape and torture being just another human activity.

If there is no true objectivity of good, then again the quality is not absolute, this would probably lead me to the idea of "the common good" being a median of subjective goods and not an actual quality.

 

I think you are misinterpreting me or attributing things on me if you conclude my thoughts on rape and torture are disgusting. Do you think I don't regard them as bad or something? How are they not primarily human actions?

Also, why becomes my perception of a good God illogical because other theists often attribute other 'omni' qualities to God? Don't you see the ideas of one theist can be just theirs and does not have to count for the other. You may offer me another theists perception and compare them to or try to combine them with mine of course, but you can't project them on me as if they are mine. That would be wrong.

I don't have an issue with you having a problem with God being (regarded as) good, but it seems now you have an issue with the fact that I am perceiving God as good. Is this true?

 

I must be, I also didn't see your edit until after I posted. You are pretty ambiguous on the subject... you scrutinize the scenario of a bear attack and find silver linings in the scenario that it's "good" from the bear's perspective, so this doesn't violate the divine good. I assume you provide that same scrutiny to rape and torture, yet you still say good is all about perspective, so I'm seeing where you're finding the good in such incidents. However, Now you're saying those incidents are exempt from the God's interactions, so God would either be not omnibenevolent, in letting those incidents happen or God would not be powerful enough to prevent them, either way it's troubling to me.

Regarding the other paragraphs regarding good, I'm not sure how you decided to make it about yourself... I explicitly stated "My view..." and "lead me to the idea."

 

btw, i would like to point out that this in no way disproves the existance of god. it is just one piece of evidence (there are others) that shows that matter can spontanously form from nothing.

as far as god-logic goes, since there are no real parameters for god, theists can claim that god might be in another dimension creating that matter or something like that. so its not ment to be a proof that there is no god. just proof that shows that no intelligent entity is required for matter, or our universe to exist.

 

it is very unscientific to take that passage, which i admit sounds lovely, as anything other than what it is: poetic allegory.

what ancient observation is there? what have we just caught up to? no offense to you as a person, but your ideas are very wrong.

 

What about the existence of intelligent entities?

 

There is no God but God
There is no God but God
There is no God but the one true God

There is no God!
There is no God!
There is no God but the one true God!

Allah Akbar!!!!

 

are entities real, though?

 

i think something like a brain can evolve, but i dont know how conciousness can evolve or be created. this is just my opinion but i think that yes, intelligence can arise from unconsous matter. (or maybe matter has some for of conciousness who knows..)

i think that question is the same as how conciousness can come into existance which is a difficult problem.

 

Yup.

There is plenty of evidence for matter having structure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnsley_fern
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_systems

 

An entity is simply something that exists within itself. You are an entity.

 

you make a great point.


when these quantum fluctuations happen, they also create an anti-particle to cancel out the energy. Why? i dont know, but in my opinion thats the universe balancing itself. When these particles cancel each other out, the end result is zero energy.

its also interesting to consider the fact that our whole universe has a net energy of zero as well, which makes perfect sense for something that was created from "nothing".

 

Just accept it, God is real, he can read our minds, he created everything, the earth, the moon, the stars. He has an interest in each one of us. He wants to be your father, your God and your friend. Just raise your heads skyward and speak to God and he will listen

 

zero point energy..

 

If God made us in his likeness, he is definitely smarter than each one of us. He has plans alright. He is going to get rid of everything that has an evil inclination to it and the earth will become a lush, bountiful and productive planet. The people will live in peace, everyone of every nation will love and respect each other. What a joyous occasion it will be and of course we Will live forever

 

If God created everything and is smarter than us and all that jazz, what's the hold up ridding the evil inclinations?

 

Time. Our lives are short in the scheme of existence so we see the world in a different perspective than God does as far as time. To us, a long time is fifty years, to God, who has existed for billions of years. 50 years are nothing, he is patient, he is just. The bible says "the nations are not more than dust on a scale" to God.

 

Is saying "We will live forever" a metaphor then?