Does God Really Make You Good?

In other words, you are basing it on a late- and post-planter culture concept of God as exemplified by the Judeo-Christian and Islamic God. Such a God is dependent upon a dualistic belief system, so you are forgetting the evil side as represented by the subconscious shadow, or in Freudian terms--simply the unrestrained ID, and the subconscious mind itself.

Okiefreak has elaborated on other concepts of God that do not fit the definition of a judegemental super-ego.

Therefore it is not a question of being a nitpicking relig-a-tool. Rather it is a matter pf understanding that there are forms of belief outside of Christianity, for example, where God is not judgemental, has nothing to do with human morals, and the concept of human defined goodness, and therefore could not be defined as the Super-ego, or even an ego-ideal.

 

I think of her as acerbic.

 

What makes you good?

 

Religion develops as an institution along with the other institutions as a culture develops its civilization. Religion therefore represents the Unifying Myth (or what is really the culture's, Unifying Truth, because it represents undeniable truth to that culture---a truth to the zeitgeist, whether or not that truth represents truth in a later time or different culture or not). It therefore reflects the morals and mores of the culture at that time (which fortunately or unfortunately are dogmatically carried on into subsequent evolutions and progress of that same culture). It is political as it gives support to the other institutions of that culture, and because it bears the primary responsibility of providing a unified identity to all the members of that culture, and gives meaning to their lives. This meaning is of course developed through, and reflective of their own history, environment, and what they need to survive and produce food, water, and other requirements to survive and grow.

What gives religion power is that it is based upon the spirituality that the people carried with them. This spirituality is the actual ecstatic experience that gave meaning and truth to the religion. But it comes from the beginning of human existence and therefore is not of the institution----it is simply the belief system as it exists among the hunter-gatherer ancestors.

To assume that this older spirituality developed to support moral and ethical concepts is pure ignorance. To assume that it develped to support a poltical system is also pure ignorance. Perhaps one needs to experience such a spirituality to understand it----but the fact is, such indigenous spirituality emerged to assure survival and to make sense of the world around man and his place in it. It developed naturally at a time when humans when humans were still deeply connected to the subconscious side of their own psyche, and its innate numinous powers and connections. It emerged because it involves very powerful and ecstatic experience and insight, and because it achieves results----not that it fit and reinforced naturally occuring patterns---but because it does achieve results.

Take, for example, cultures where a healer who is unable to heal, is removed from the tribe, or even, in cases where the concept of witchcraft and the use of bad medicine has developed, and a healer who fails in his art is deemed a witch and killed. If such acts of healing were not sucessful it would not take long for a tribe to lose significant numbers of people.

 

Just like art is subjective....so are how people rub others...some may not rub someone the right way, while others do...makes no right or wrong again...as long as no one is hurting anyone on purpose....
I never minded Joan. I found her funny at times.....

Brad Pitt and Jolie are getting married...Now, I liked Jennifer Aniston better....I always liked Brad Pitt, though, and have nothing against Jolie, but when I heard she liked knives and to cut up dolls as a child and won't have anything to do with her dad, I could not relate to her anymore.

 

Acerbic in the sense of sharp and forthright.

 

Yes, I know....

 

How is this remotely related to whether or not God makes you a good person? Whatever we may think of Joan Rivers, I wouln't call her divine, in the literal sense. Whether or not she's good is debatable, but if you want to talk about her, it seems appropriate for you to start a new thread on celebrities, where you can discuss Joan, Brad Pitt and other stars without interrupting and cluttering up this thread. Otherwise, you're being a troll.


Acerbic in the sense of sharp and forthright

 

In exactly the same way you determine that something may be appropriate or not. Through invocation. Why wouldn't you call anyone divine? Does the spirit of god then cause you to condemn as unworthy? In that instance I would say your conception of god does not make you conceive beings in good estate suggesting that they are trolls if they don't abide by your sense of decorum. The statement about Joan Rivers was a joke, a play on the word critical. I responded with the correct level of appropriateness given that this thread has to do with how god makes you a good person or not. No reason to be rude to the apparent interloper. Excuse me if it interrupts your train of thought. Mine is intact. You appear acerbic to me more in the sense of an unfulfilled sense of taste or aesthetic. I suggest if you don't like the taste of your verdicts you should spit them out forthwith and not chew on them any more.

 

GOD is DOG spelled backwards.
How do we dtermine if this may be invocated or not? THROUGH INVOCATION. Man sees through his eyes. So why then would his being not be related to the eyes of others? Does this spirit cause a divinity forthwith? In the same sense of propriety that clouds the acerbic. There is no mountain, rather only the MOLEHILL. In the unfullfillment of our desires we imprison others. There can be no CRIME, when there is no JUSTICE.

 

Do you beieve in trolls? Do you thik it makes for a good discussion forum to tolerate those who post obviously off-topicstatements? Do you actually think Joan Rivers and Brad Pitt are germane to the topic?

 

Develop is a bad word in this case---a better choice of words would be, revealed. Ceremony developed, or was taught by spirit---the experience itself was revealed.

However I think you might be basing your idea of a spiritual experience on, say, a Far Eastern experience of satori, no? The indigenous experience can deal with reality itself, but it also deals with healing and survival.

A great example is how Western man assumes that indigenous people discovered their healing plants by trial and error over many years. But there are several problems---take for example a plant that has healing properties and yet is poisonous---if a people discovered its poisonous properties by people dying off when they consume it, then how would they discover that it is beneficial for certain illnesses.

Yet even in modern times, certain healing plants have been revealed to people in ceremony---not only the plant, but what it does and how to use it.

There are indigenous individuals in tribes around the world who have the ability to call game when it becomes scarce. This has been demonstrated numerous times to numerous different anthropologists. Often times the game is described as appearing in groups with one specific individual animal described as offering itself, other times it has been described as a lone animal offering itself. In a dolphin calling ceremony in the Pacific, the bay in front of the village was filled with dolphins, but specific individuals were described as offering themselves by jumping onto the beach. The dolphin case, as well as some of the others were online years ago, and you may still find them online with a google search.

 

No I don't believe in trolls. I believe that tolerance makes things tolerable. I actually think that how we perceive others is germane to the topic does god make you a good person. No one broke any rules on my account. I think honoring others minds is the only appropriate response if we want to be better at personal relations. I guess the god that inspires this moments discourse is your idea of intellectual integrity to the subject and the breach of which somehow sullied the value of our own contributions. In this we can see god is jealous and does not tolerate well interlopers in his bed. Why would anyone choose tolerance or patience when they can lean to throwing stones at people to drive them away? What would be the inspiration for such a personally demeaning chore as being patient or kind?

 

For someone promoting the concept of tolerance to the brink of absurdity, you seem to have quite a bit of criticism for Okiefreak's conduct. Interlaced with the pettiest sarcasm I might add.

 

Before you reply with your bloated explanation, I want to point out that I don't mind hypocrisy. In fact, I believe it's a prerequisite of being human. Of course there's an intrinsic contradiction in your criticism of criticism, but there's nothing wrong with it. I only made my observation for the sheer delight of finally ensnaring you in your own rambling psychobabbles. Like a wolf stepped into a bear trap, you'll now gnaw at your own paw, whimpering as the blood spills to the snow-swept ground. Only once you are finally free will you realize that the very act of gnawing your way out has reaped only your own doom.

 

On my account indigenous is the species and our home in the planet, not the culture. There are indigenous individuals in all cultures who have the ability to intone prosperity and healing and the spiritual experience is the only experience as we are animated by the breath. Revealed by what or whom?
Not by ceremonial processes but by the fact that reality is made of in-formation. Ceremony is mood setting ambiance which allows a safe space to relieve your grip on the veil of proportion. Belief is fundamental to the formation of perception. That is why you come out saying, try it you'll like it or at least be informed. I personally play with swallows for joy and the thrill of precision. I call them down from high in the air and they come around me and I play catch with them. I can produce videos upon request but will have to wait until spring when they return to my area. It wouldn't occur to me though to sacrifice one of them for the sake of communal prosperity. I think these tribal drumbeats are war drums in disguise. The rhythm of life belongs to all natures.

 

If you will notice I distinguish one thing from another and appeal to everyone's good reason. I try to identify the founding invocations that lead to certain behaviors. If there seems a sting to it, it is the discomfort of light striking the dark adjusted eye. If the shoe doesn't fit you are not required to wear it but at least now you know people wear different size shoes. The shoes of god are cobbled to order. I know you are trying to gain some satisfaction in finding me chewed down to size in your estimation. Not going to happen because I don't try to perform a hypocritical balancing act, I am sure footed and single minded. If a brother of mine attacks innocent expression I will show him a harmless choice. There is one ascendant morality in life and that is self interest. i don't call for harm to anything and appeal to clear thinking. The harmless remedy to intolerance is tolerance. I don't believe that the extenuating circumstances that lead to the appearance of hypocrisy are a fact of nature but I do believe there are no idle thoughts. Again if I have not adhered to using my powers of distinction in determining one thing from another and saying what a thing is for as I have claimed then specifically point it out because I don't believe that is the case and I don't think you have a case for hypocrisy but I can change my mind in the face of mutually observable fact.

 

By the way neodude1212 glad to see you in the thread regardless your reason I know you have it.