Domestic Violence....

if you kill someone who is choking you..its self defense.

If you kill someone who slaps you, its murder.

You cant justify killing someone because the abuse may get worse...

 

The question is, if a woman slaps a man, is it abuse? I think it is, but many women seem to disagree. A few years ago the local paper ran a two part article on domestic violence, how studies were showing that women are just as likely to be violent against male partners, and how these findings were being ignored by feminists protesting "domestic violence". Women claiming to represent local women's groups and women's shelters wrote letters to the editor denouncing the article and some actually made excuses justifying why women would hit their partners, eg. because they were arguing and he had cornered her and she wanted to get away from him, so she "pushed him aside". By this logic, isn't it then acceptable for a man who day in, day out comes home to a woman who continually nags and complains and finally after quietly tollerating her behaviour, to snap, tell her to "shut up" and then smacks her. There seems to be a serious double-standard here, and I think most anyone concerned about "domestic violence" would consider this a problem; but many feminists just don't seem to.

Let's see the stats for pregnant women being murdered. In Canada, about 50 women are killed in domestic violence situations. I'm fairly certain that the number who die in child birth is similar, if not higher. It would definitely be much higher if we did not have the medical knowledge we have today. (Interesting is the fact that feminists still instist that the medical establishment is less concerned about women's health.)

 

http://www.letswrap.com/LetsWRAP/Spring01/page2.htm

Pregnancy-Associated Mortality finds that homicide is the leading cause of death during pregnancy (43.4 percent) and during the "43 to 365 day period following delivery or termination of pregnancy" (23.3 percent). But the study finds that homicide accounted for only 3.6 percent of the deaths occurring within 42 days of delivery or termination of pregnancy.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90678&page=1


A slap by either a man or a woman is abuse, yes. So is a push, shove, kick, punch ,etc. I've been there. I don't spank my children because I think that is abuse, so yes I consider slapping my husband to be abuse.

 

Well, I think every murder is tragic, but unfortunately, there are certain people out there who want to politicize the issue and in the process get hysterical and distort the truth. By making an issue of women who are murdered while pregnant, feminists are simply using the age old "women and children" lament to push their real agenda.

Bust here's the truth of the matter:

*Men are more likely to be victims of violence and homicide than women.

*The number of women killed in domestic violence situations is relatively small; in Canada, with a population of 30,000,000, about 50 a year. In Minnesota in 2003, there were only about 14 "femicides".

*A significant number of the women who were murdered while pregnant, were not known to have been pregnant until after they died. Obviously if feminists don't make light of this, it makes it seem more like there's some sort of relationship between pregnancy and murder than there really is. Since women tend to get pregnant and also happen to get murdered, it's not surprising that pregnant women are murdered. This doesn't mean that there's some sort of concerted effort on the part of men to slaughter pregnant women. Feminists labeling this phenomena an "epidemic" is ridiculous.

 

The main reason that pregnant women get murdered is BECAUSE they are pregnant...not that they just happened to get murdered. The majority of murders of pregnant women are by *shocking* the father of the child she is carrying.

 

And, no matter how you look at it, 43% of deaths of pregnant women from being murdered IS epidemic. The number should be 0.

 

The last sentence doesn't make sense.

Well, like I said, a significant proportion of the pregnant women were not known to be pregnant, so obviously the motive of the murder was not because they were pregnant. And most of the known pregnant women were probably murdered because there was a a previous history of violence in the relationship. The fact that a woman was pregnant is likely not a motive in a large majority of the murders.

Like I said, in Minnesota in 2003, c. 14 women were murdered in domestic violence situations; if 43% of them were murdered, that makes a whole SIX. A tragedy yes, but an epidemic? No way.

Don't fall into the typical feminist trap by being hyperbolic about these these issues, because ultimately it trivializes the whole matter and makes it less likely that people take you seriously.

 

What doesn't make sense? The person that usually kills the pregnant woman is the father of her unborn child. And, it's usually when she is very pregnant (last trimester).


I'm not falling into any trap. I think it is a tragedy that pregnant women are murdered by their significant other. The only person trivializing (sp?) the issue is you, jiimaan.

And 6 pregnant women being killed in ONE state is epidemic...how many states are there in this country? So that's appr. 300 in the US? How many in the world? Thousands every year? How is that not epidemic?

 

**smacks self in the forehead**


jiimaan, I will not argue with you anymore...this is giving me a headache...best to try and let this thread die out...BYE! Have a nice day!!

 

Well, the interjection of "*shocking*" is what threw me off. I'm used to reading normal English, not this Internet English with all of its ungrammatical modifications.

Yes you are falling into the trap because you're doing it even in this post. I've stated that it's tragic and unfortunate that these women are killed. But the numbers just DON'T reflect the fact that it's an "epidemic". This is not triviallizing the matter, it's being realistic about it.

If c. 300 murders in the U.S. is an "epidemic" to you, then what would you call the thousands of people who die in car accidents, the thousands of people who die in household accidents? Or what about the thousands of MEN who are murdered every year?

Incidently, since many of the women were only discovered after their death to have been pregnant, this would make it what, 2, 3, maybe 4 who were visibly pregnant at the time of their murder (in Minnesota).

 

Of course not. That is not what was said. If she has the ability and the power to get away before he kills her, then she should do it. MOST abused womyn DO NOT KILL THEIR ABUSERS. MORE womyn are killed by abusers than abused womyn EVER kill, and that killing of womyn is almost never caused because the man was abused. Men abuse and kill womyn for much different reasons. Those reasons RARELY include self defense. When a womyn kills, it is usually (although, of couse not always) self defense from more abuse, more deadly abuse. (see the above stats.)

Is a womyn slapping a man abuse? OF COURSE IT IS. Adults with a modicum of mental health usually do not hit other people. Spouses, adults, children or people in bars.

 

About 4 million womyn are abused physically in the US every year. Womyn commit about 40,000 acts of non deadly violence a year (most in self defense,) and commit ONLY 400 murders of abusive partners a year. I would HARDLY call this saying that womyn feel free to kill a man who slaps her.

But a slap a punch or a kick are all abuse and all the same.

Here is a very sobering statistic

It is not only the womyn who kill abusive men, as rare as killing an abuser is, it is sometimes done by sons and occasionally daughters who cannot stand the abuse anymore.

 

Oh, gee. The stats are rigged by "feminsits" again? Most of the stats I gave were given by the CDC (the center for disease control) and other govermental and law enforcement bodies. Last I heard, they were prettty accurate, and not "infiltrated" by feminists.

 

Maggie, don't waste your time posting feminist "statistics" about this or any other topic, because they're basically either outright lies, or distorted.

Women kill. The frequency may not be as high as for men, but then again, women haven't been socialized to be violent. Women kill for money, or they kill their children. But we can't really know how many murders are committed because women are more likely to use hitmen or other more subtle means of getting the job done. How often has it happened that a woman has talked a man into killing for her? That's certainly something no feminist's going to study anytime soon.

That said, the fact of the matter remains, that men are more likely to be murdered. Period.

And when it comes to women who do murder, they certainly DO NOT get treated the same as men. They spend much less time in prison for similar crimes, and they always seem to get more support and sympathy. Pamela Yates MURDERS her five children, and you feminists jump to her side and support her and make excuse after excuse for her conduct. The same goes for Karla Homolka. It's disgusting, and it's no wonder feminists are held in so low regard.

 

This is what I mean:

http://www.owjn.org/issues/w-abuse/survey.htm

Statistic Canada comes out with a study that shows that women are just as likely to abusive, and what do feminists do?

The folks at the Ontario Women's Justice Network are "frustrtated" by the fact that they have to address the issue of violence against men. So they make something up to refute it, fill it with excuses and lies, and then urge their devotees to read it. Yeah, it really sounds like these people are concerned about justice.

 

Womyn spend MORE time in jail for murdering intimates, they have a higher conviction rate AND they are less likely to get paroled.

If you don't like a statistic, you call it a "feminist plot." Well, it doesn't work. Few beleive YOUR agenda, And only God knows what that is. Last I checked, the CDC, the Harvard Law Reveiw and quite a few law inforcement agencies, where the stats were collected were NOT denizens of "radical feminists."

Are men killed by womyn partners? yes. about 400 a year Are womyn killed by men partners. Yes, in much larger numbers. 1.474, at last count in 2000. 4,000,000 million womyn are battered a year.

I will NOT repost stats which are well known and WELL DOCUMENTED. There is NO fucking agenda. It is simply truth. More womyn are battered, more womyn are killed.

Nuff said.

 

do you, maggie, think men report abuse at the same rate as women?

 

Who knows? I can't guess on it. I know quite a few abused womyn. I know only ONE abused husband that I can tell.

Hey, if someone hits you CALL THE COPS. Then all the stats will be there. There used to be little stats on domestic abuse, because not only were womyn afraid to call, but cops refused to even take statements from them. That has changed (in most places cops HAVE to take statements in Dom Abuse cases) men, if and when they are abused, can use the inroads womyn CREATED in the 70s and 80s to work to their advantage, if they are abused.

A womyn should not hit her husband or boyfreind. A man should not hit his wife or girlfreind. Parents should not hit their children. Love does not include hitting.

 

My guess is, abuse goes widely unreported like rape.

atleast we agree on something

 

You have got to be kidding!?!? Women spend less time in jail for similar offenses, and not only that they spend their time in in really posh surroundings. At least here in Canada. Karla Homolka, who only got 12 years for her role in the death of her sister and two other teen girls, was sent to "Club Fed" where she got an education and partied.

Our society still holds to this antiquated notion about the innocence and virtue of women. And this is sadly reflected in the law.