Eastern Gate: An Atheist's Worst Nightmare

JDFU,


I am interested in your answers to two questions, that remain unanswered, that I addressed to you ending with posts #311 and #335 ? The "question" in post #335 is implied because the dialogue (from posts 332 to 335) simply ended with no response, or opinion stated, by you where the dialogue lead to, from my view of it, a logical conclusion that appears to be counter to the idea that you had been stating which is quoted following:

Additionally, after apparently 'dropping' the dialogue, above mentioned, you continue to state the same; an example follows:

Thus, following, I am reposting the statement that initiated the "'332 to 335' dialogue" and am requesting that you continue with the dialogue.

The gist of the message that I hope to relay to you is that there are many different ways to say the same thing; and that this appears to apply universally, and in this case meaning that there are many ways to say what 'the Christian Bible' says. One example of this is simply the reality that 'the Christian Bible' can be, and is, written in many langauges; and this example can act as an analogy to the idea that equivalent expressions can take many forms even when expressed in the same langauge.

This does not, from my view, necessarily discount the value or greatness of any particular work or set of works; but instead I have been addressing the "'either/or' nature" of many of the arguments in these threads. I will also add that I am not promoting misologia but that I see these "'either/or' arguements," as expressed in these threads, as potentially misleading because rather than saying "gee, I do not know and I have more to learn" one is more so "pushing 'truth'" rather than creating an environment that lends itself to healthy and fruitful discovery.


Peace,

David




[edited typos - 120805]
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But if the Bible is a lie then how then how do you know there is a God... perhaps you have your own special revelation?

 

Varuna and Natural I will try to reply to you later... I don't have the time now.


Take Care

 

JDFU, the bible is not a "lie". I did not say "The bible is a lie." You are not correctly interpreting what I say.

I have said the same about your interpretation of the bible:
"Ask God if you (your words) are under attack (rebuke) because you incorrectly interprete the bible."

This is something you can safely do, you just need to have faith and respect God's answer.

No.

 

You do not believe that there is a Devil... Contradicts the Bible

You do not believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation... Contradicts the Bible.



It is amazing how you try to use the Bible against me but you do not believe that it is 100% true which Bible also states it is.... another contradiction between what you believe and what the Bible states...

You believe the Easter gate is a myth... Not according to God... Contradicts the Bible

 

Varuna,

This is true, American culture has has distorted the truth of the Bible. However, despite the distortion, there is some truth. Yes we are to love our enemies but there is also a time for war and a time for peace and keep in mind that God used war to defeat those who were a roadblock to His plan.

-I am not sure what you are asking for but I am pretty sure the disciples died for belief in Christiananity and today people still are dying... Now, of course other religions are persecuted too. It seems though Christians are presecuted more often than others.

-Yes there is a lot of similarities between Christianity and other religions. I believe however that was the devil's deceitful plan. Make religions as close as possible except one key part: the PLAN OF SALVATION. The devil's ultimate plan is to divert people away from Christ and with false religions he is doing a great Job.

The question is: How do I know Christianity is the true religion?

Yes the God of the Bible is love.

 

David,


I am not sure exactly what you are getting at. I'm sorry. Also, if I miss one of your posts, please keep posting it until you get an answer. I have been extremely busy with coaching and with finals here at college so I do not get to go on as often.

 

JDFU, you can do better than this...it doesn't sound intelligent.

 

I am sure whole Christian faith would not sound intelligent by your standards.

Understand the devils intentions according to the Bible and it starts to make sense.

 

JDFU,


You write,

In post #364, which I assume you are responding to, I am, partly, asking how is it, in light of our previous conversations, and separate of quoting any version of the Christian Bible, that you justify the concpet that another religion is inferior to your religion ? Stated more succinctly; by using verbal expressions that do not include quoting a Christian Bible how do you explain that your religion is better than another religion ?

I want to make clear, here, that I am not assuming that your religion is, or is not, better than another religion. I know the feeling of feeling that I have awarenesses, that I possess information, of great value that I would like to impart to others; it appears to me clear that you also know this feeling. In post #364 I am also trying to demonstrate to you that anything, any concept, can be expressed in many different ways; that this is part of all of life and appears to be true in "any 'situation'" including when we talk about God. See post #364.


Peace,

David




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JDFU, I'll put it another way...you don't sell something by first insulting your customer's accustomed taste or standards.

Example: You're a real-estate agent, working with a couple who have become wealthy. They want to move from a nice but modest home that they are nonetheless attached to and represents a large part of their lives, to a much larger home of superior design and features. You have one in mind for them that is, in your opinion, excellent in every way. You keep your appointment and pick them up at their old home.

Upon walking in, do you:

A. Look around, then say, "well, this place has a few nice features but it's basically a slum...I don't see how you've lived here all these years, especially in this crappy city that's run by that corrupt Mayor Jack Flash. Be glad you've got me to help you find something much better...the real-estate listing book that I have is the only one that has these special homes in it".

B. Engage them in conversation about their neighborhood and home and the life they've lived there, compliment nice architectural or decorating features, then say, "well, folks, I know you've been happy here, but you told me you want to move up to something much bigger and better, so let's go look at a house I've found that I think will suit you...and, by the way, why don't you take a look at a few pages I've marked in our special real estate listing book".

 

Nobody knows of the nature of god. Not even of the existence of god. You have faith that the bible tells you secrets (or not-so-secrets) of the divine. Kharakov has faith that his experience has enlightened him (is that accurate?). I have faith that if I live a good life and there is a loving god, he'll be good to me. If that's not the case, I die and rot, but I lived a good life, or god sends me to hell, and he's an asshole. And I don't think that god would be an asshole if he exists, so it's really either good happy god and we're friends or I die and rot and don't really care. But back to the point...

Nobody. Not you, the rest of the christians, muslims, hindi, buddhists, pagans, atheists, popes, priests, clerics, vicars, cats, dogs or trees KNOWS a single thing concerning the divine, or even whether the divine exists. There are many theories, and small parts of every religion are scientifically sound (the power of prayer, meditation, solctice, etc.), but when it comes to god, it is only belief. Faith. Smoke in mirrors. So really the peak of education in life is when it ends.

 

Good point Spook.

I've worked for a traveling carnival off and on for quite a few years and I've learned that there's two ways to operate a game booth;

If you're working at one of the games that can actually be won and that offers people something for their money you use positive salesmanship: "Hey folks, take a look at what I've got, tell me what you like and I'll hook you up".

If you're working at one of the games that can't be won you use negative salesmanship: "You haven't won anything yet? Loser! Ah nevermind, this games probably too complicated for you anyway...don't want to play? Cheapskate!....", You try to hook them in by insulting them. Now if they stop and play they're really just trying to get their self respect back and teach the game operater a lesson.
But like I say, the guy running that booth isn't really offerring you anything, he's just playing on your pride hoping you'll respond to the challenge.
And (like most apologists arguments) the games rigged, there's no way to win. The guy behind the counter has an agenda and he's a consumate cheat.

 

Naykid...good and interesting example. Going against a circular system of reasoning is a no-points, no-win situation.

 

Such as?

Salvation from what?

False religions?

I hope you are not going to take this position, but you need to understand what you risk. If you aren't going to understand and realize what Christ taught, then you risk teaching something other than what he intended. By your own logic, you risk teaching a "false religion" which only serves to alienate people who don't know why they should even feel any need to understand you. You risk becoming one who diverts people away from Christ.

It is good for you to believe and to profess Christianity means something, something sublime, something transcendentally sane, healthy and good that transforms lives for the better.

But to attack and diminish another's faith in God is to contradict Christ. To abandon everything he taught . . . especially in an antithetical attempt to force others to believe his way is best . . . what is that?

Good question. Once you know the truth this question invites, then you will also know why Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and so on are, ideally, Christianity's greatest allies.

And truth, and creativity, and consciousness, and wisdom, and reality, and charity, and unity, and . . . the list of God's qualities goes on and on and on.

Your authority will become increasingly meaningless if you continue to ignore this.

Peace and Love

 

I do not believe in the devil you believe in. I believe in ignorance of the truth, which is the devil.

I believe that knowledge of God is salvation.

God did not abandon all those who have not heard the gospel- God has given them other ways of knowing God. God does not abandon God's children- to say so is to ignore the loving kindness of God.

Do you literally interprete the parables of Jesus? If so:
"'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. '"
Read Matthew 13:10-15

I do not use the bible against you, I use it for you.

It's not a myth, it's a yet to be fulfilled prophecy. Disputes over unfulfilled prophecies do not result in the edification of faith- acknowledging God's current works within the world does.

 

Damn, are you all still arguing whether a fucking gate proves the existence of Sky Daddy?

 

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Well, we tryed arguing that a phone booth in Toledo proves the existance of elves but nobody seemed to care.

 

What do we measure ? What limitations do we argue for, automatically and otherwise, while we are learning more about our world ? With such a history of surprize in advancement where preceeding generations appear to have been significantly blinded to the advancement of the following generation or generations; I see it as odd that an instilled reserve in all judgement and well articulated freed-imagination in creating and assessing our forecasts are not the 'rule of the day.'






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