Evolution

The highest thought is nothing compared to even the lowest sensation.
Be a scholar and analyze things to dust and death
Or jump through the window into Spirit and FEEL

 

So where again does it say God removed the Co2 cover to reveal a sun, moon and stars that had already been created? What are the Hebrew sentences?

 

If you'll remember, I never said that the Bible said that. I merely mentioned that was a possible reason why the Sun and Moon were now visible where they weren't before. The order being that defused light was allowed to get to the Earths surface which would allow for plants, then plants which must have depleted the CO2 levels, then the Sun, Moon and Stars were visible. Which to me seems, simple, straight forward and reasonable.

As for the Hebrew sentences, a Google search for Hebrew Interlinear Bible should give you the information you wish.

 

I hope that window's not too high up.

 

The Sun and Moon weren't visible because they weren't there, at least according to Gen.1.

1:11 ​

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# וַ​

u·iamr​

and·he-is-saying​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

א דְ ֵ ,ַ​

thdsha​

she-shall-cause-​

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to-vegetate​

 הָאָרֶ​

e·artz​

the·land​

אֶ &ֶ​

dsha​

vegetation​

ב* עֵ ֶ​

oshb​

herbage​

מַזְרִיעַ​

mzrio​

c​

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sowing​

And God said, Let the
earth bring forth grass, the
herb yielding seed, [and] the
fruit tree yielding fruit after
his kind, whose seed [is] in
itself, upon the earth: and it
was so.​

11​

זֶרַע​

zro​

seed​

 עֵ​

otz​

tree-of​

רִי ְ​

phri​

fruit​

ה* עֹ ֶ​

oshe​

making​

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​

​

do​

רִי ְ​

phri​

fruit​

לְמִינ​

l·min·u​

to·species-of·him​

ר אֲ ֶ​

ashr​

which​

זַרְע​

zro·u​

seed-of·him​

־​

-​

ב​

b·u​

in·him​

עַל​

ol​

on​

־​

-​

 הָאָרֶ​

e·artz​

the·land​

וַיְהִי​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

' כֵ​

kn​

so​

:​

:​

צֵא ​

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1:12 , וַ​

u·thutza​

and·she-is-​

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cbringing-forth​

 הָאָרֶ​

e·artz​

the·land​

אֶ &ֶ​

dsha​

vegetation​

ב* עֵ ֶ​

oshb​

herbage​

מַזְרִיעַ​

mzrio​

c​

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sowing​

זֶרַע​

zro​

seed​

 לְמִינֵה​

l·min·eu​

to·species-of·him​

And the earth brought
forth grass, [and] herb
yielding seed after his kind,
and the tree yielding fruit,
whose seed [was] in itself,
after his kind: and God saw
that [it was] good.​

12​

 וְעֵ​

u·otz​

and·tree​

ה* עֹ ֶ​

oshe​

making​

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do​

־​

-​

רִי ְ​

phri​

fruit​

ר אֲ ֶ​

ashr​

which​

זַרְע​

zro·u​

seed-of·him​

־​

-​

ב​

b·u​

in·him​

 לְמִינֵה​

l·min·eu​

to·species-of·him​

רְא # וַ ַ​

u·ira​

and·he-is-seeing​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

י$ִ​

ki​

that​

־​

-​

ב ט​

tub​

good​

:​

:​

וַיְהִי ​

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1:13​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

עֶרֶב​

orb​

evening​

וַיְהִי​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

בֹקֶר​

bqr​

morning​

י​

ium​

day​

י לִי ִ ְ​

shlishi​

third​

:​

:​

פ​

p​

And the evening and the
morning were the third day.​

13​

אֹמֶר ​

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1:14 # וַ​

u·iamr​

and·he-is-saying​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

יְהִי​

iei​

he-shall-become​

מְאֹרֹת​

marth​

luminaries​

רְקִיעַ ִ​

b·rqio​

in·atmosphere-of​

מַיִ  הַ ָ​

e·shmim​

the·heavens​

. And God said, Let there
be lights in the firmament of
the heaven to divide the day
from the night; and let them
be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and
years:​

14​

יל & לְהַבְ ִ​

l·ebdil​

to·to-​

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cseparate-of​

' י ֵ​

bin​

between​

# הַ​

e·ium​

the·day​

' בֵי ​

u·bin​

and·between​

יְלָה 1 הַ ָ​

e·lile​

the·night​

 וְהָי​

u·eiu​

and·they-become​

לְאֹתֹת​

l·athth​

for·signs​

עֲדִי לְמ ​

u·l·muodim​

and·for·appointments​

לְיָמִי ​

u·l·imim​

and·for·days​

נִי  וְ ָ​

u·shnim​

and·years​

:​

:​

1:15 ​

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 וְהָי​

u·eiu​

and·they-become​

רֹת לִמְא​

l·maurth​

for·luminaries​

רְקִיעַ ִ​

b·rqio​

in·atmosphere-of​

מַיִ  הַ ָ​

e·shmim​

the·heavens​

לְהָאִיר​

l·eair​

to·to-​

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cgive-light-of​

עַל​

ol​

on​

־​

-​

And let them be for
lights in the firmament of
the heaven to give light
upon the earth: and it was
so.​

15​

 הָאָרֶ​

e·artz​

the·earth​

וַיְהִי​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

' כֵ​

kn​

so​

:​

:​

1:16 ​

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* עַ# וַ ַ​

u·iosh​

and·he-is-making​

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do​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

אֶת​

ath​

»​

־​

-​

נֵי ְ​

shni​

two-of​

אֹרֹת " הַ ְ​

e·marth​

the·luminaries​

דֹלִי 2 הַ ְ​

e·gdlim​

the·great-ones​

אֶת​

ath​

»​

־​

-​

ר א" הַ ָ​

e·maur​

the·luminary​

And God made two great
lights; the greater light to
rule the day, and the lesser
light to rule the night: [he
made] the stars also.​

16​

דֹל 2 הַ ָ​

e·gdl​

the·great​

לֶת  לְמֶמְ ֶ​

l·mmshlth​

to·ruling-of​

# הַ​

e·ium​

the·day​

וְאֶת​

u·ath​

and·»​

־​

-​

ר א" הַ ָ​

e·maur​

the·luminary​

' טֹ. הַ ָ​

e·qtn​

the·small​

לֶת  לְמֶמְ ֶ​

l·mmshlth​

to·ruling-of​

יְלָה 1 הַ ַ​

e·lile​

the·night​

וְאֵת​

u·ath​

and·»​

כָבִי $ הַ​

e·kukbim​

the·stars​

:​

:​

1:17 ​

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',ֵ # וַ ִ​

u·ithn​

and·he-is-giving​

אֹתָ​

ath·m​

»·them​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

רְקִיעַ ִ​

b·rqio​

in·atmosphere-of​

מָיִ  הַ ָ​

e·shmim​

the·heavens​

לְהָאִיר​

l·eair​

to·to-​

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cgive-light-of​

עַל​

ol​

on​

־​

-​

And God set them in the
firmament of the heaven to
give light upon the earth,​

17​

 הָאָרֶ​

e·artz​

the·earth​

:​

:​

ל ​

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1:18  וְלִמְ ֹ​

u·l·mshl​

and·to·to-rule-of​

# ַ​

b·ium​

in·​

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the·day​

יְלָה 1 בַ ַ ​

u·b·lile​

and·in·​

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the·night​

יל & לֲהַבְ ִ ​

u·l·ebdil​

and·to·to-​

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cseparate-of​

' י ֵ​

bin​

between​

ר הָא​

e·aur​

the·light​

And to rule over the day
and over the night, and to
divide the light from the
darkness: and God saw that
[it was] good.​

18​

' בֵי ​

u·bin​

and·between​

 הַחֹ ֶ​

e·chshk​

the·darkness​

רְא # וַ ַ​

u·ira​

and·he-is-seeing​

הִי אֱ​

aleim​

Elohim​

י$ִ​

ki​

that​

־​

-​

ב ט​

tub​

good​

:​

:​

וַיְהִי ​

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1:19​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

עֶרֶב​

orb​

evening​

וַיְהִי​

u·iei​

and·he-is-becoming​

־​

-​

בֹקֶר​

bqr​

morning​

י​

ium​

day​

רְבִיעִי​

rbioi​

fourth​

:​

:​

פ​

p​

And the evening and the
morning were the fourth
day.​

19​

Genesis 1​

WLC

 

I see it to mean that these lights (luminaries) have become visible on earth at the times described.

Understanding what is meant by 'made' is pretty important.

For example, I made the light shine in by opening the blinds of my window. I made the light for my room by opening my blinds. God made the light to shine in, to be seen through the atmosphere. He made them in the perspective on earth.

God made (accomplished) the lights to be seen.

It seems to be the preparation of the Earth's atmosphere. Remember, this is meant for His creation, so I am thinking that it is in our perspective for the purpose of meeting our needs and His intention.

Also remember, that both the Heavens and the Earth were made in the beginning.

In the end, I think that it is mostly about visibility. God made (accomplished) the already created luminaries and the lights to be made visible.

 

Hehe. Don't you know that God changed the results of radiometric dating as to test the faith of Christians? Sure they say the Earth is 4-4.5 Billion years old. But all true christians know its only about 10,000 years old. (Saying this all with sarcasm). And you are very right about anti-intellectual of most Christians.

 

Why would it matter when you've got wings?

 

Yes, I agree we have to understand the meaning behind the words. I've given you the renderings in four stanard English translations of the Bible and an interlinear translation of the Hebrew. What is it about the meaning of "iei marth" and "u iosh" that is unclear? The reason you and OWB resist the obvious meaning is that you have a fixed notion that the Bible is inerrant and if it meant that God made the sun and the moon after He made vegetation it would obviously put the Bible in conflict with a scientific understanding that even you and he are unwilling to deny. The Bible does say the Heavens and the Earth were made before vegetation but that says nothing about the sun and the moon. The Bible clearly says those were made later. Therefore, your solution is to deny the plain meaning of the words and to claim, with no basis whatsoever, that they must mean something else. Yet you both resist the approach that I and many other Christians take in looking for the real meaning of the passage, which has nothing to do with a description of how vegetation, the sun, and the earth actually came to be and everything to do with the assertion of God's supremacy over nature and pagan gods. I have no problem with your saying you can make the light shine into the room by opening the curtain, but if you said you can make the light, I'd advise you to seek professional help.

I could certainly live with your interpretation, particularly since I don't give a rats ass when the sun, moon and stars were created. The way I'd handle it would be to admit there's a conflict between what the words seem to say and what we know from science to be the way things actually happened. It wouldn't take all that much to justify your interpretation. You could say the authors of the Bible thought the moon, sun and stars were made after vegetation, but what actually happened was that they were made visible. And we know that because of science. Why can't we do the same with evolution?

 

It's like listening to Star wars fan boys bicker over who shot first Guido or Hans Solo.

 

Obviously, Hans Solo. I agree, this is incredibly picky, petty stuff, but look how many people's lives have been messed up because of what "it says" in Genesis, Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, or whatever.

 

If you had read the answer, you would have noticed that the Earth having been created been created in the beginning along with the heavens means that the Earth can be billions of years old.

 

You've got wings? I knew there was something special about you but wings, wow.

 

Interesting idea... kind of in lines with the firmament and never having rain before Noah.

Did it ever snow before Noah?

 

no not really. according to the bible the earth is only thousands of years old.

 

you know?
the metaphorical kind?

 

I have no idea where this came from, honestly. Seek professional help? I see Genesis as being poetic, inerrant, and true.

Can we please stop playing the motive game? It's getting pretty frustrating. Let's just stick to the arguments.

I am trying to better understand the Bible and you're turning this into some kind of Freudian struggle that me and OWB are having.

OWB is always accused of pushing a certain understanding, but right there, what you did, is a whole lot more forceful than pointing out an opinion, which is the only thing that I was doing. If you don't like my interpretation, then that's fine, but it was my interpretation. I would be ok with accepting your interpretation but I don't think that it is true. And I don't think that it is true because the meanings behind the words, the context, and what follows, for me, makes more sense. But that's me. You see it differently, and your way makes sense too.

I never once said to anyone, "BELIEVE MY INTERPRETATION ALL YE HEATHENS".

"The reason you and OWB resist the obvious meaning is that you have a fixed notion that the Bible is inerrant"

Yes, I do believe the Bible is Inerrant but it's not for the reason that you suggest. That I can't accept the 'obvious'.

You can't tell me what to believe and how to interpret the Bible or that I am doing it because I am crazy or because I can't accept the reality of it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Oooooooh!

 

yes and no while there a number of people who have place a date

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/ussher/white_ad.html
there are plenty others

man was created by the Trinity on October 23, 4004 B.C., at nine o'clock in the morning...I like that specific one

like everything else in the Bible it's open for one's own interruption

no where does it name a specific date and time

i also have to go with what a gal told me once that it doesn't really say

In the Beginning .. it translates to In A Beginning

though just a slight difference in words opens up quite a bit of variation

 

yes, I believe in evolution. Because it seems more reasonable than any other theory i've heard.