Explain it then..

FIRSTLY welcome to hipforums .........NOW LETS DEBATE SPIRITS.............Going back to to the prayer thread "you claim spirits dont exist although you have no solid evidence to back this up (only opinion)"you then continue to have a cheap dig "saying anyone who hears voices "and claim to have seen spirits / ghosts blah blah blah should take meds (very mature of you to think that ) . Their are ways to learn more " GOOGLE " as you have suggested to previous posters . I am persuming that you YOURSELF have"nt had any spiritual experiences ?" therefore you automatically (in your mind set ) dismiss other people who have had these experiences . I have personally been on many paranormal investigations and have witnessed spirit first hand . Their sure is evidence out in the big wide world ie = evps " individual accounts " mediums etc etc .Do you know what the following means..........clairaudience .......clairemotion........clairlocation.......clairtaste........clairaurience........clairsentinence....clairvoyance....? it is also a well known fact that certain people who experience nde"s have their pyschic abilities enhanched .Also using the pineal gland in line with our chakras raises the astral body "as i say dont take my word for it GOOGLE .

 

Fedup, I dont believe everything in the Bible, i believe there are many metaphors that people miss. The bible is just here to give us basic knowledge on how we SHOULD live our lives. Thats why Jesus tells us parables. Im just saying fedup, that when you die, you dont just rot in the ground. There IS an afterlife. Whether jesus is with God or not, theres a creator that loves and has a purpose for every single soul on this earth.

 

How can you say there IS an afterlife? You don't really know that, you just follow the christian dogma.
Maybe there is an afterlife - but if there is, it is very unlikely that christians have any conception of what it might be, or any monopoly as they claim on such an afterlife. The notion that to get into the afterlife you need to believe in a man nailed to a tree is extremely wierd - there can be no substantiation of such a claim, and really does it seem that likely? To me it doesn't seem likely at all. It looks more like fearful primitive garbage.
If jesus is not 'with god' than clearly the whole christian model for the afterlife and indeed the present life crumbles to nothing.

I also find quite alarming this notion of the bible as a book which tells us how we should live - esp, given some of the stories it contains. Mass genital mutilation of fallen enemies because that is pleasing to god being just one instance.
And how can christianity tell us what to do about issues which didn't exist when the book was written? Global warming etc? Why should people be tied to medieval notions of morality which can be shown to be unscientific and dangerous - sexual repression etc? Why should 'slaves obey their masters'? Why should women 'cover their heads'? No reason other than superstition and nonsense.
It worked for medieval kings who wanted to keep their populations under control - in to-day's world it can only add to the problems and conflicts which actually prevent us from addressing the real and critical issues which humanity faces in the 21st century.

 

Thanks

Two things...., you are correct I do not have evidence of their non-existence other than the lack of my personal experience OF their existence. However, this is like me asking you to prove that there isn't a dragon in my garage sitting on the hood of my car. Secondly, I never said the words "should take drugs" I merely suggested that there ARE drugs for this. They are prescribed on many occasions for people "hearing voices" and people with epilepsy who have visions. Not that I was implying they necessarily have these conditions.

I did at one point in my life. When I was 15 years old, I was more or less "recruited" into a Southern Baptist Revival Week, where I got "saved" and re-baptised and I "felt the spirit" of the lord. I questioned what I felt with a skeptical mind later on in life. I came to the conclusion that this feeling was similar to taking drugs, yes I've taken drugs too. It was a chemical reaction in my brain, produced by my brain by the release of Dopemine, seratonins and other various chemcals found naturally in the body. I also realized that people of other faiths experience similar feelings from a totally different god/belief system. This feeling is nothing more than the feeling of being accepted in the communal group I was associated with at the time. Most everyone likes to feel like they are a part of group, we are afterall, social animals.

I don't dismiss the people, I dismiss their claims of the supernatural, there is a difference. I don't blindly accept anecdotal evidence as evidence of a claim. Do you believe in the existence of Unicorns? What about Leprechauns?

I'm sure you have, I know there are many people out there who look into the paranormal and I'm aware many phenomena that goes unexplained. However, unexplained phenomena =/= evidence of the paranormal. It is evidence of unexplained phenomena.

I'm sure there is plenty of "anecdotal evidence" out there for all this stuff, again, I dont blindly accept anecdotal evidence. I might accept some if it could be repeated in my presence or if I actually witnessed it, however, I haven't seen anything repeatable. There are people who "want" to believe in things of this nature, just like there are people who "want" to believe there is life after death. Its very understandable to want to live forever even if it isn't in the physical body. Life is wonderful so who doesn't want it to continue?

May I propose that before we get too involved in this debate, that we first, define what you mean by spirit? I find it much easier to debate a subject if people are clear on the meaning and definition of the subject they are debating. I don't debate gods without a clear definition of what god we are talking about, I think it would be beneficial to do the same with spirit. I'll let you define it. Seriously, are we talking about Casper the ghost type spirits, electromagnetic forces that seem to have a "mind" of their own, or lost human souls wondering around the earth or maybe even angels? Lets be clear before we get into it and have misunderstandings. Would you object to starting a new thread just for this debate so that this one doesn't get anymore derailed than it is? If you do start a new thread, send a private message when its been formed.

 

Did you know that it's possible to induce a near death experience? The ancient egyptians would put people to become preists and pharoahs in a coffin for a specific amount of time, then take the cover off, and the person would have had an NDE from almost-but-not-quite suffocation. ALSO, you can stimulate them, or all the components of them, with electrodes on an open brain.

 

Ever see Flatliners, 1990 hit movie with Julia Roberts and Kiefer Sutherland?

If you're not familiar with it, the story was about a group of present-day medical students who get into "flatlining" or inducing near death experiences. Worth a look for fun.

 

Interesting! I have heard of it, but now I shall have to see it.

 

I saw it when it first came out..worth another look for me too.

 

Whoever said faith and science must be either/or but not both? Who said faith and science must compete with one another? Whoever told you to happily accept only what you know about what it means to be? Whoever it may be, why do you believe them? This is a real question. If you have any mind, any heart, any guts, any balls, then you could offer a truthful answer.

You can, at least, think about what you don't know before you speak.

Faith and science, anyone with even a little extra intelligence and courage could reconcile the two.

Peace and Love