feminists

And men have Spike TV, sheesh...

Advertisers targeting women with their product marketing is not the same as women controlling television. Women arent the only ones who drive SUV's either...

You complain about women spending too much money but you think they should stay home if they have kids. So they shouldn't spend their husbands money, but shouldnt work if they have kids...

I think you are confused. That, or you just want to bitch about women. Oh, and BTW - I am not brainwashed. And I also know, for a fact, at 15 a person still has a lot to learn about relationships and the other gender. Don't start out with a bias, you'll just end up bitter.

 

I'm sorry, I'm just going in circles.

Fuck

 

LOL yes i hate those ppl. and no, not everyone is like that on here. especially not me. i love men

 

growing up in a mixed school i learned to treat male and females on an equal level. having a hole or a sausage doesent make a difference to my attitude to a person

 

LMFAO











well said good sir.

 

no problem babe

 

ur sig pic always makes me smile Woodstock_Blazer

 

To answer the base of this thread:
I haven't met ...so far... any "man haters"

Feminism means much more... much more than what meets the eye. It's the people who take the term too literally and too radically that screw it up for the rest of us, who just simply want equality.

For example, in business, I don't expect to get paid MORE than a man, I just expect fair, equality.

I also dislike the way some women view feminism as having to be LIKE a man... like, how some women feel that in order to be equal, they must go out and weight lift, or fix cars... etc. It's cool if a woman really enjoys that and is really good at it, then she SHOULD do so... but, I think some are mistaken, and feel they have to do it to prove something.

Proving something isn't the point... asking for equality, and the right to speak our minds is the point, IMHO.

 

One, pointless side note... I hate the Man Show. With a passion. Guys complain about Lifetime and Oxygen til no end, how the hell do you think some of us feel about degrading, disgusting material like the Man Show?

"The girls on the trampoline!"---Please. Is that all we are good for? To watch our chest bounce? It literally makes me sick. Maybe I'm easily offended, more so than some of you, but I really can't stand such things.

I never see shows on Lifetime where women watch men walk around in speedos, observing their package shift about.

It's sick. Really.

I also hate the idea of Hooters... I always joke about it and say I'm going start a restaurant called "Packages" and we'll serve awesome chocolate instead of wings... and have guys serve us in Chippendale's type apparel...

Sounds awkward when you reverse the situation, but I think it should either be a two way street, or people need to shape up once and for all, and stop viewing women as objects.

Not that any of YOU do... I'm talking society in general.

 

RE: To answer the base of this thread:
I haven't met ...so far... any "man haters"

Go to any liberal university and hang around the Women's Studies department. Trust me, you'll get an eyefull.

RE: Feminism means much more... much more than what meets the eye. It's the people who take the term too literally and too radically that screw it up for the rest of us, who just simply want equality.

Feminism isn't gender equality. Gender equality is gender equality. Feminism is me-first professional victim-ism of the same sort as those "black activists" who think that they're owed $1 MILLION each as reparations for an injustice that never actually happened to them. (The people doing the asking, I mean.)

RE: For example, in business, I don't expect to get paid MORE than a man, I just expect fair, equality.

Well, look again, sugar, cause there's women demanding that a womyn should be able to take a year off, paid, maintaining salary and benefits and seniority, to have a baby SHOULD SHE CHOOSE. That womyn should be fast tracked into upper management even though they take a year off here and there.

 

As for the Man show and women jiggling on trampolines - er, yeah, that does have a certain visual appeal for most men.

The equivalent is NOT Oxygen putting on men's balls jiggling. Most women find male genitalia "icky" to look at. The equivalent is day time soap operas : "Let me tell you something, Amber. I have Connor wrapped around my little finger, and I will ruin your entire life. Though I am a successful, scrawny bitch on wheels, I never emotionally graduated the catfighting and backstabbing of high-school." Ever note that the men are good looking, rich, and always invariably pawns of the women around them?

Remember what I said about Jane Eyre? That is the quintessential womyn's book.

 

I meant I haven't met any "man haters" on here... that WAS the question in the base of this topic. Go back and read.

IronGoth, you aren't a woman, are you? If I'm correct... you don't know how it feels to be looked upon the way we are by much of society. I've encountered MANY males who seem to have the idea that women SHOULD be seen and not heard... I've had many encounters where, I speak my mind, assertively, not aggressively, nor passive... and had men literally rip me apart for doing so. I've had men literally tell me what my position is, and what I should or shouldn't do, and what I shouldn't say. I've been told, already, at 19 that my position is "in the kitchen" by SEVERAL males.

Gender equality? Yeah, I agree with it, but I prefer to consider myself a feminist, as I don't see men struggling to make their way in the world, or make a name for themselves. Or I should say, it's RARE to see that with men.

You think sexism against women is non-existent, or just because there are SUPPOSED to be laws against it that it's not around? Try being a woman once and experiencing it first hand.

I'm not even asking for equality from the government as much as I am from people themselves...individuals. The government can't control what a person does, they can punish a person for doing something wrong... but they can't prevent it. Companies still get in trouble EVERY DAY for sexism in business. Wal Mart, here, has already!

And please, spell WOMEN right.

It is my biggest pet peeve for someone to think they know everything without experiencing it first hand. I would NEVER say something about another race without knowing what they have been through first hand. EVER.

I'm sure men have difficulties too... but you need to understand that in this world [or I should specify the U.S. in particular!], if you are not white and male, you're considered inferior...no matter what the laws are or how far we HAVE come, sexism...racism..etc is still VERY much around, and the people who still practice it/feel this way are still as much full of hate as they were in the past.

We HAVE come a long way, but we still have much progress to make.

Don't tell me "look, sugar" ... open your eyes yourself. It is ignorant to think that all of us women would be so selfish to think we earn a place taking so much time off of work...it is ignorant to think that sexism doesn't exist, and that INNOCENT women who are desperately working HARD to make their way in the world don't encounter such things.

 

And I can honestly say that I do NOT watch soap operas because they are shallow.

That's my point, the men who are offended by soap operas, or Lifetime, are the same men who will turn on the Man Show or something equally as offensive.

THAT is my point.

I wouldn't turn on a shallow soap opera anymore than I would the Man Show.

Lifetime though, I don't understand how it's offensive. I rarely see soap operas, or the *type* of soap that you are referring to on there... and I rarely see good looking men waltzing around on that channel. Most of the material on there is based off real life situations; a lot of the films are about women who have been raped, or struggled one way or another. It's not MALE BASHING in any way.

Though, I'm not a fan of lifetime, simply because it doesn't interest me, and I don't feel like watching films like so... too depressing.

 

RE: I meant I haven't met any "man haters" on here... that WAS the question in the base of this topic. Go back and read.

Nor have I.

RE: I've encountered MANY males who seem to have the idea that women SHOULD be seen and not heard...

Please don't make the assumption that I necessarily agree with the position of the Promise Keeper Texas Jesus types, either.

RE: Yeah, I agree with it, but I prefer to consider myself a feminist, as I don't see men struggling to make their way in the world,

The hell? I've been fighting since the day I was born. Look at my tagline. I excelled in school, was a volunteer at hospitals and paramedic orgs, but couldn't get into medical school. "Sorry, no white males need apply." Same for government, fire, police, etc. So I took off to the United States and got into a meritocracy kind of gig, if I'd been unsuited for software development I'd have started work in a kitchen.

RE: Try being a woman once and experiencing it first hand.

Actually, if you looked only at the inside of my throat, you'd honestly think I was female. (A otolaryngologist who peered therein for other reasons marvelled that it was literally a woman's voice box) I have a soft, Catherine Deneuve-ish kind of voice, which on the phone comes across as female. So yes, I've tried it. I no longer correct people who think I'm female because they actually treat me BETTER. BTW I have two friends who actually changed gender to female cause they didn't think they could be self-actualized as men.

RE: The government can't control what a person does, they can punish a person for doing something wrong...

Actually the government writes laws like VAWA that state that you can only have battered women's shelters. Men are never battered, apparently, and if they are they're on their own. The Ontario government said is was perfectly acceptable to prevent men from taking on certain jobs, especially if they're white. And we're not talking about DV counsellor, we're talking about fireman, policeman, doctor.

RE: And please, spell WOMEN right.

I'm not the only one who spells it that way. Apparently it's offensive to many womyn that the word MAN the hated word MAN the hated concept MAN is in the word for woman.

RE: It is my biggest pet peeve for someone to think they know everything without experiencing it first hand. I would NEVER say something about another race without knowing what they have been through first hand. EVER.

I'm sure men have difficulties too...

So, you'd never say anything unless they're men. I guess we have difficulties too. Sure. I guess the guy who brought a dummy grenade into a Seattle courthouse and waited for the cops to shoot him dead as a political protest was upset that he couldn't get a 9 am tee time, right?

 

RE: Your last statement...

I didn't mean it that way. I worded it that way, because I can't say that I know what a man's difficulties are... because, I DON'T know...I'm not saying that I assume they don't have issues, I'm saying that I don't know what they are because I haven't experienced it.

Dig?

I am not trying to offend you, and I don't think men should have any less equality than women... I just hate it when some men think that women have it so easy, or that we don't go through crap everyday.

I'm sure you do too...I'm not sure EXACTLY what it is you encounter, but I know you do as well. I was simply trying to point out that I consider myself a feminist because I feel the for me to say I believe in gender equality, I would feel that I am assuming I understand what men go through as well, and I don't.

Or, some things, I know just from men having said... but I don't think that gives me authorization to believe I understand.

If that makes sense.

For example, I see how hard it is, for men to get past the stereotype as having to be "macho" ...when most men would much rather just cry. But because, I don't experience it, I don't actually know how hard that is to deal with. I'm sure it IS VERY difficult, and irritating...but I don't feel that I can defend something that I don't entirely understand.

Make sense, or no?

 

RE: I was simply trying to point out that I consider myself a feminist because I feel the for me to say I believe in gender equality, I would feel that I am assuming I understand what men go through as well, and I don't.

Gender equality simply means that everyone gets an equal shake and everyone's concerns are given the same level of respect. This is NOT what feminism teaches and hey, check out the fact that "Men's Issues", moderated by a WOMAN no less, is buried deep in the bowels of personal pages. Apparently we don't have issues.

RE: For example, I see how hard it is, for men to get past the stereotype as having to be "macho" .

It's not a stereotype.

If you're wondering how we end up "macho" - look at it this way. Mom got upset when we cried as kids, it was demeaning and wussy - grow up and get over it. And you try being a whiny little puss in the schoolyard - rightly, the other guys shun you and/or beat the snot out of you, and you can't get a date cause no girl wants someone clingy and emotional.

And believe me, we notice that you party with, sleep with, etc. the leather-clad, muscle bound jerks, and go back to the wussy boys to platonically borrow their cars, ask them for money and bring them as sherpas while you shop for shoes.

We get the message early: don't bother crying, nobody cares. Just get on with it.

What it grows you into, as an adult, is not someone who gee golly would really like to cry but is afraid to - but someone who thinks it a waste of electrolytes and water.

 

Exactly. And get paid the same amount for the same job -- I don't expect to go in there and bat my eyelashes at some guy to get him to do the heavy lifting that's required for the job that we're both getting the same pay for.

And that's a big part of what some women lump as "feminism" that bugs me. We're supposed to be fighting for the right to choose our own destiny, the right to participate in any hobby or have an equal stance in any job... But god forbid a woman choose of her own volition to be a stay-at-home mom! Most of the feminists I know would be totally cool with that, but that's because I am good at avoiding extremists! But I have come across some out there who think that such a woman is "a traitor to feminists everywhere" or some rubbish like that.

And, of course, the flip side of that is that men should have the same rights to enter into any field. The numbers and visibility of stay-at-home dads are increasing, but they're still a tiny tiny minority.

 

RE: We're supposed to be fighting for the right to choose our own destiny, the right to participate in any hobby or have an equal stance in any job

Interesting quote from a psych blog...

"There is a severe shortage in the US of male teachers--just 21% of teachers are male ... fear of being charged with child abuse. Some men report not being able to get a job interview because people think there is something wrong with men who want to work with children. Thanks alot, Oprah."

 

I like how you, yourself, stereotype women as a whole:
and you can't get a date cause no girl wants someone clingy and emotional.

And believe me, we notice that you party with, sleep with, etc. the leather-clad, muscle bound jerks, and go back to the wussy boys to platonically borrow their cars, ask them for money and bring them as sherpas while you shop for shoes.


Wow talk about stereotyping.

 

I will NEVER complain about you girls going off on men as being immature users who are self-centered cause that's for all intents and purposes correct.

Stereotyping is wrong. Generalisations are fine.