I think thats how Islam is portrayed by the media. The religion certainly has violent aspects to it, and it has certainly produced an extremely backwards culture in the Middle East. However, just as Jones doesn't represent all Christians, the violent sects of Islam does not represent all Muslims. I have a friend that is a practicing Muslim and he certainly does not condone violence. I'm sure there are Muslims all across the globe that are progressive and nonviolent. Although I do agree with you to a certain extent. Islam as a whole is a very intolerant, threatening religion.
I don't think this is a question of legalities and rights. It's a question of judgment and what's right. Rev. Jones is one of numerous nut cases who are trying to take over this asylum, and seem to be succeeding. I don't like empowering fundamentalists of any religion. The question is what to do about them? I don't know the answer, but thinking clearly and speaking out ourselves is a good start. Macho rhetoric about bombing people is part of the problem, not the solution. We've been up to our ears in alligators as a result of our national machismo in taking on Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time--delusions of omnipotence. What have we really accomplished from these adventures? If the Qur'an is "just a book", is Ground Zero" just open space? People don't seem to be interested in talking with each other, just at each other, and the damned 24-7 designer news agencies and inflammatory angry pundits on TV and talk radio are largely responsible. They need to lose their ratings.
So how many have you spoken to? Were you thumping your Bible at the time? The Rev. Jones is an Al Qaeda recruiter.
Good point. Like that 15 year old girl they stoned to death a couple years back because she was raped. Not very peaceful, is it?
...are you asking for my personal opinion? If so, this pastor is a fair e.g. He is conciously picking his words and creating a narrative that isn't just somebody giving an opinion...or demonstrating their hatred with an act (burning books for e.g). Both parties would be viewed as a criminal. There are grey areas, true. I just think what this pastor has said has drifted into incitement. He hasn't drifted too far into hate speak, but he isn't too far off. Plus I think it would be more of an open and shut case if say one of his followers became violent towards a Muslim...rather than a reaction from "the other side"...I'm positive there are defineable limits here...we just need to investigate a few cases where the law has been said to be broken. I'm sure there is a precadent. I just think the imminent part need to be looked at. Section 29A Meaning of "religious hatred" In this Part "religious hatred" means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief. Section 29B: (1) A person who uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, is guilty of an offence if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred. I think the difference is there does not need to be imminent violence...there also needs to be an intention to provoke violence. In English criminal law, incitement was an anticipatory common law offence and was the act of persuading, encouraging, instigating, pressuring, or threatening so as to cause another to commit a crime. It was abolished on 1 October 2008 when Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 came into force, replacing it with three new statutory offences of encouraging.The common law is now only relevant to offences committed before that date.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement It's quite complicated.
Would you like to name all these countries? ...or just be vague and speak in generalities? So you think a group of peaceful moderate Muslims opening a religious center near Ground Zero is wrong? Why?
Pakistan, Turkey, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Morocco, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Somalia, Libya, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Chad, Lebanon, Kuwait, Albania, Oman and at least a dozen more that don't spring to mind, at least half of which are in Africa. Even the ones lucky enough to get rich from having oil underneath them and thus get to have nice shiny materialism can't bring themselves to evolve into a just society. Repression is just too good a deal for them I guess.
I think I follow. I'll ask the following with the guess that you're a Christian of some manner. Why did you personally carry out the Crusades? As a followup, I'd like to know why you personally felt the need to torture and slaughter thousands...perhaps millions...of people on accusations of witchcraft and heresy during the Inquisition? Also, why do you support polygamy? Ridiculous, right? How I'm yelling at you for things carried out by lunatics who obviously didn't understand your faith?
Gosh, aren't you the clever one. Some movie informed you that Europe had a superstitious middle age so where does anyone of European ancestry get off expecting people to live in the 21st century with enlightened values? You like being an American? You like having the choice to be religious or not without violence and brain-washing to force your religious conformity? You like being educated in a public school system with dances and proms on friday nights? You like to bird-dog chicks, slam dance, eat blt's, rock out, walk unhindered to 7-11 for penthouse, pull your pud, tell your prick boss to take his job and shove it? Christians, Jews and secularists built those choices for you. And most importantly, your sisters have all the same rights as you do. What would you and she have in Islamcrapia? Islam had NOTHING to so with building the fabulous country and choices you got. It's done nothing in its home countries either. You got a hardon for Christians, do ya? It's because of them that you got everything you have. Go live in one of Islam's shit holes. A little perspective might result, ay.
Id rather be a nomadic tribesmen living in a hut smoking me some hash and opium all day.. would be like following the rainbow people around, just the children would obey their elders..
You're right, of course. It has nothing to do with simple greed, lust, and fear that exist in all men. It's because Islam made them do it. I could throw the laundry list of things the Christian church did to destroy science and progress for a hell of a long time, by the way...but what's the point? People did these things, people fueled by that greed or fear or lust. What about the many, many, many Muslims who live in what you would consider 'good' countries? It won't be long before they outnumber the other religious folks in some of these...and then what? You do realize that the majority of people living in those 'bad' countries hate the way their government acts; but they are so downtrodden and controlled that they can't do anything about it, right? It's like saying every single American saluted George W and cheered him on at every turn in the name of our glorious Lord Jesus! Read the Qur'an sometime; it's one of the better 'core books' for a major belief.
I probably should not have made this statement because I really don't want to back it up...I have muslim friends and I feel like providing negative examples takes away from the positive way they practice their religion. I made this statement based on things I've heard from people in the military that have seen it first hand and various things I've heard from the media. Not the most reliable sources but few Americans can really provide better sources. I'm aware its a broad generalization but the events that give me such an opinion are frightening; for example: The way Islam treats their women. Cultural relativism justifies this to a certain point, but cultural relativism also jusifies pedophilia. South Park makes an episode making fun of Islam and Comedy Central gets a bomb threat; any religion that can't have a sense of humor about itself scares me. The fact that Muslims in the middle east burn bibles and american flags quite frequently but anyone suggesting the idea of burning a Koran receives death threats. I could provide other examples but I think everyone reading this is capable of doing research themselves. My opinion really means nothing and I have a bad habit of accepting many different viewpoints at once. I can love the way my muslim friends celebrate Ramadan with emotion equal to the way I hate the fact that muslim fundamentalist have training camps in which they train naive young boys to hate and kill westerners and and non-muslims. There is good and bad to every religion. I do think that most reigions have evolved to a point where they've put their violent tendencies aside; Islam, as a whole (and by whole I mean those represented by vocal middle eastern sects of the religion) has not.