Foreign labor

That actually sounds like a decent idea...take all the people who say that they can trace their line back to Saxon England and that those who don't go back that far should be deported...a few simple blood tests...if they're found to be even slightly different to what they claim (and they probably will be) they're shipped off on the next ferry "home".

 

well I spent a good part of last year in the UK on a student visa, but that has expired. I came home because of a family emergency, leaving behind a job, many friends and a love interest. So needless to say, Id like to go back and pick up where I left off but I need to find out what the best way to do that would be.
With concerns to min.wage...Well, I had a live in job that paid min wage plus tips. Basically, the fact that I didnt have to pay food or rent and usually not alcohol either (I was a bartender) meant that I could save almost all my money. When I came back to the states I got double in dollars what I had saved in quid. Which means...considering all my expenses; plane tickets, eurorail, weekend trips, etc...I still saved more money by living and working in the UK than I could have if I moved in with my parents rent free and did nothing but worked a min.wage job in the states...So I definitely can see why everyone wants to come to England to work. We all want some of those pounds! and there are so many live in jobs! its unbelievable! NEVER in the states. I really felt like you guys take care of your people, natural citizens and immigrants alike. My country could really benefit taking a page out of the UK book. Damn, typing all this really makes me want to go back.

 

I've worked for minimum wage before. For an individual with relatively few expenses, it's quite adequate. The problem comes, say, with a single mother trying to raise three children on minimum wage. Even with child support benefits, it's going to be a struggle. But I can appreciate how this is still a preferable situation to that of similar individuals in America, bearing in mind that here education right through school and healthcare from the cradle to the grave are also free....

 

Immigration is not a racist term. It's an important issue and there are ways of talking about it that do not resort to racist prejudice, bigotry and xenophobia. But should you find yourself mouthing the old myths about it which underpin xenophobic thinking such as "they go straight to the top of the housing list" and "native Britons are second class citizens", or that old adage of the far right, "Enoch was right", then I think you probably need to examine your own thinking.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a racist.

The phrase "I'm not racist but..." is interesting because it demonstrates that such individuals lack the metacognitive ability to understand that their assumptions actually are racist ones, which is the very definition of an unconscious prejudice.

 

I believe that locals should not be left to defend themselves. This is the way it has become, because the Government (Labour) is literally rolling out the red carpet to foreigners. I am certain that anyone who speaks about Immigration, is not neo nazi or racist. I believe that anyone born in a certain country and is a natural born citizen should have priority. If I was to go to America and start demanding a house, a job and for the whole system to literally bend over backwards for me. That would be unfair. I would expect to be treated as someone who isn't priority because the place I came from isn't under tyrannical leadership and my life isn't in jeapody shalt I ever return. Of course, those who are in credible danger and seek asylum, must by the very nature of society, understand if they don't get what they want. No man or woman in the world gets everything they want.


Sometimes you have to compromise or seek another safe country to reside in. I can name plenty. But not suggesting that we don't want immigrants or we dont welcome them, is far from the truth. This is yet again, Media driven smears. (The Sun or the Daily Mail, probably.)
Only now that the state of immigration has come to critical levels, Nobody has actually seen such a surge of immigration in such a short space of time. It is too short a time, and change to our society is happening too fast. As an obvious result, tensions rise. It seems that when employers (And they still do) take on foreigners at lower pay, they are undercutting local people.

As before, Immigration HAS become a racist term, because there are a lot of people who simply give in to media spin. British people are not Bigots, racist(Most of them) or hostile. I think Local people have a right to be concerned. Immigration has on any country, an impact on social cohesian and identity. When controls are put in place and when the people of Britain start to vote for someone other than this Labour government, perhaps, just perhap, maybe, being positive here, we can limit immigrants to a few hundred a year when there is a desperate NEED for workers. The labour market is pretty full. Many immigrants and many local people. Lets get the balance right instead of letting foreigners get all the attention and let the local people's needs be heard and indeed met. I am sure that Immigrants want the same thing. They genuinely wish to contribute to society. Not as a higher up celebrity. But as an equal to the British man/woman. An equal society reduces tension and reduces pressure.

But!, lets be realistic,. How many more people should we let into the country, before everyone starts to revolt? How many can we fit into this finite island? Not many more. It is now the case that each year we have 250,000 foriengers who stay long term if not indefinately. Not all immigrants have jobs either. Many are claiming jobseekers allowance. I can understand and sympathise. I too am on jobseekers allowance. But, those who are claiming, the more claimants the more pressure and the tax payer bares the brunt. Is this a fair society? Should the government do more? Yes. We said that for the past ten years. Sometimes I wish margerat Thatcher was leader again. Atleast she stood up for local people. This government neglects its own people, but cradles foreigners.
Diversity can be a positive thing. but right now, the labour government are creating a tension. This means, we have a gap. This is not a good thing. I think I predict a riot.

 

"They're taking our jobs" - not true, Britain has hundreds of thousands of unfilled job vacancies both in unskilled labour and highly skilled professional positions, the migrant workforce are often the only people who can or will take up these positions, we actually need to relax the limits on immigration.

"Immigrants get better treatment" - not true, migrant workers who pay taxes get the same treatment as native Britons who pay taxes, they do not cause a drain on the welfare system but are usually young men and women of working age who pay their way and contribute to the economy - just what we need. There are limits on the access migrants have to welfare, social housing etc (and very strict controls on refugees, a seperate issue) so the playing field is actually tilted the other way. If anything we make it too difficult.

"Immigrants erode our national identity and social cohesion" - Britain is and always has been a melting pot of different peoples from the Jutes to the Normans, Saxons, Angles, Vikings and more recently those from the subcontinent and Carribean, migrant populations integrate successfully within a generation so that the children of immigrants become as British as any of us who were born here. This is only really an issue if you're a racist

"Britain is overcrowded" - not true, we have plenty of space, we have about half the population density of places like Belgium and Holland, at the current rate of population growth (about 0.2%pa) we'll be able to continue for perhaps a century before there is anything approaching a problem. Such extrapolations assume migration and birth rates etc will stay the same which is unrealistic - the postwar baby boom for instance was a temporary blip, extrapolations of population growth were actually way out because birth rates rapidly decreased. We are currently going through a period of relatively high immigration but it would be a mistake to assume this will not change, this is dependent upon living conditions in Britain and the rest of the world and the state of the job market locally and globally. Currently Britain is a booming economy with a high market demand for migrant workers to fill our massive employment shortfall and currently we are incredibly rich compared much of Europe, particularly Eastern europe and the accession states. These are variable factors, not to mention other factors like our ageing population and fluctuations in birth/death rates.

There may be an issue with global population growth and the use of resources in the longer term, this is not a local matter but a longterm worldwide issue and is not an argument against migration into Britain - currently Britain is in fact benefitting greatly from it. There will of course be local problems with allocation and expansion in any growing society and the lowest paid will cluster in already densely populated areas. This is no argument against migrant workers but a local problem which can be resolved with investment in infrastructure.

Doomsday prophecies are always overblown and are always shaped to fit the ideological prejudice of the person making them.
This duck quacks like a xenophobe

 

No, I am not a neo nazi or a zenophobe. If this was the 1960's, i might have actually welcomed immigrants. Now the government has gone over the top with no limits, increasing the EU countries (This is decided by Brussels on how big the EU gets)
Once again, nobody who is raising the subject up about immigrants or foreign labour is a "Racist bigot", "Neo nazi" or a "duck that quacks zenophobe".

I listened to five live the other day and I have to tell you that not all immigrants who enter britain suddenly get jobs. Many spend years on social security benefits. Atleast 1.7 million immigrants are claiming some sort of benefit. FACT!
There are 250,000 who are currently in work, unskilled or skilled trades. This figure is rising every month as more and more immigrants are coming to the UK.

My solution:

Many companies based in the UK should open up bases in the EU countries and across the world. That way, people won't immediately home in on Britain, as work will be available. To even suggest "No limits on immigration". is quite ignorant if not scary. Perhaps the day will come when many who call those who question the state of immigration such shockingly obscene words like Neo nazi, zenophobic ducks and Hitlers 8th army. Will in time take them words back. When they see exactly what Enoch Powell was saying was actually 100% spot on.

I don't believe Britain is a neo nazi culture. I think we have no morals, society has broken. But nonetheless, if anyone ever actually looked up the term "neo nazi". They might actually feel the need to perhaps....apologize

 

Once again young J0hn your facts leave a little to be desired, that figure of 1.7 million sounds suspiciously like the estimated figure of total unemployed in Britain. 1.7 million unemployed immigrants is therefore a little, well, plainly wrong. The biggest pressure by far is unemployed native Britons claiming benefits and contributing nothing to the economy. Perhaps we should expel them to Eastern Europe in order to make way for more immigrants. Then again, you say claiming benefits "of some sort", perhaps you mean family tax credits etc, the kind of tax relief we give to working families who contribute so much to our economy for so little reward. Clearly hard working immigrants are as deserving of these benefits as "the white man", in the words of your hero Enoch Powell. Please be a little more precise

 

The Actual figures are coming through due to pressure on the government to give us the facts. Forgive me and other's who say 1.7 billion employed. Actually far more are unaccounted for and only a third of 1.7 billion have been accounted for as unemployed and claiming benefits. It is all rather confusing because this government likes to cover up things including actual figures. Five live, Talksport and BBC News are good places to hear the latest.

www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive

 

More than the population of China is claiming benefits in the UK?

 

Righty ho, I'll get my news from Talksport

J0hn your ideas about this issue and your comprehension of the numbers involved are patently absurd misunderstandings gleaned from phone-in shows...

 

I wouldn't put it past the government. To be honest, I don't hate immigrants or think Britain would fare better if we never had immigrants. I think and I am sure am not alone here, the government has gone mad by not putting limits on immigrants and supporting the expansion of the EU. I am not a neo nazi or a zenophobic duck, or is anyone else who questions the way government handles immigrants and borders. It isn't racist to be patriotic, it isn't racist to think about local people. Local people come first and those who have come from war torn countries, fleeing persecution torture or even death. It is these that deserve to be priority along with locals. However, this country isn't infinite. Mass immigration will and is now becoming detrimental to social cohesion and our system that deals with the influx, daily.

I personally believe that when people use terms like, ''zenophobic ducks'', and ''neonazi''. First they don't drag the rest of us into their world. Finally, one should know what they are actually saying. I mean, it is a bit over the top to suggest someone is a neo nazi when all they are doing is questioning this lousy government's policy on border control. Nobody is saying, burn all immigrants, send them to concentration camps. We are simply suggesting that perhaps, enough is enough. Enoch powell was right, he wasn't racist. Perhaps when people hear the word Immigration, they suddenly assume that they hate and loathe them. It isn't anyone saying British jobs for british people. It is Gordon Brown. First off, that is illegal, as we live in a multicultural society, hense the EU. But also, jobs should be for anyone regardless of creed, colour, race or religion, sect or nationality. But before we let the whole world saturate the country. We should put limits where there is need, and allow some to come through when there is a shortage of British workers.

Simillarly, companies in the UK should create new bases in other parts of the world. Therefore they benefit without having to leave their country. It must be hard leaving their own country. To come into an alien society. I would feel the same. The bottom line is.....
Common sense. Lets be realistic, rational and keep numbers in proportion. A free world is unrealistic, crazy and simply asking for devision bells.

Of course this country needs immigrants. We value them probably more than we value our own people. Why should we roll out the red carpet for foreigners and then leave locals to fend for themselves? This is unfair and I am sure immigrants would also agree. The status quo of our government, is the very thing that will turn a potentially good thing,{immigration}, into a detrimental and negative event.

Our country is warm, welcome and is totally opposite to Nazi Germany, let alone Neo Nazi. Britain is a tolerant country. Perhaps we tolerate too much. Unlike the french, if our government do something wrong, we roll over and play dead. Typical brits, what is it about our love for tea

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/unskilled+immigration+to+rise+/1038362

Interestingly the government has to put out one line about being strict on old Johnny foreigner takin' our jobs (and doing them better) to pander to the ignorant and the xenophobic who have little or no understanding of the issue while the economy desperately needs more migrant workers to fill the massive employment shortfall...

Who called you a neonazi J0hn?

 

i think he got confused because i said I was being a spelling nazi (as he keeps typing zenophobe and not xenophobe) and somehow he mis-read and thought I'd called him one. *unless i'm utterly confused - which could be accurate*

 

I think we need a Forum Dictionary.

 

now i'm confused

 

I assume a dictionary is required for all the big words, and the sentence is quite long also, one might even suggest never ending.

 

I take it my ubiquitous sesquipedalianism has garnered the thoroughgoing opprobrium of the multitude?

 

showoff! ... damn, i know what ubiquitous, garnered, thoroughgoing, and multitude means (well and all the little words too)

this reminds me of the first time i stumbled onto this forum, there were a few regular posters (including you and Sal) that used such big words all i could think was damn the schools over here must be so much better.

of course now that i've lived here long enough i know this isn't the case. :lol: