Forgiveness

I understand the spiritual focus of your thoughts, but I find it hard not to stray back into the world of duality.

Evil done in one lifetime does not universally deserve to be exonnerated. Think Josef Stalin and Adolf Hitler. Both were monsters who caused the tortured deaths of millions of ppl. I find it easy not to forgive them. Likewise all the lesser monsters who have come after them and done the same heinous crimes against humanity.

Some crimes at least deserve a life sentence. If not incarceration then to live without the forgiveness of the ppl you have wronged.

The only ones here capable of forgiving this specific person would be the aunts. Not saying that OP be prevented from forming her own relationship with her grandfather but she is wise to acknowledge that he did harm children and take that into account.

 

I agree...limit your contact. If he is really sorry and just wants a family again, he should understand your wariness. But if you just write some letters and don't get too engaged, you can build trust if there's any to be built. Take it very slowly. And be honest with him, I think. Let him know there isn't trust there. 'Cause it's his responsibility to try and regain it. If he won't put forth the effort, then it's a lost cause.

 

^Yes agree with this exactly pretty much.

and Shale I understand very much what you are saying, and perhaps you are right, but I can only suggest that everything happens for a reason... everyone comes into this world with a purpose, perhaps only to show us exaggerated forms of the darkness contained in our own psyches? perhaps only to act as an Evil so terrible as to test our Compassion?? As Satan is the ultimate test of the Compassion of God? Remember Father Sun shines on everyone all the same, without Judgement... Death is a part of Life, Suffering and Pleasure are two sides to one coin yaknow? I'm sure you do, and I know what you mean, too... also I will say what is Easiest is not necessarily what is Right

 

Yeah, compassion is exactly what ruthless people need. An absence of kinship creates hate and desperation in people.

Though some people might just be born corrupt, like if they just have some kind of deficit in their genes. It might not be possible to distinguish the difference, but compassion should be the norm, so that those who can't be reached are glaringly abnormal, perhaps.

 

Awful is stepping into a pile of shit.

You are talking about someone who actively CHOSE to harm children. It is one of the most unforgiveable things a person can do.

As for whether or not he wants to be loved, or feel like he still has a family and so forth... to fucking bad for him...

He chose to use love to harm others. To give him more love is to return his weapons to him.

By saying the things that you have, you are telling people who may now be reading this forum and thinking about doing the same thing that if they do go ahead and destroy a child like this that there is hope for them in the future.

The only hope a child molestor should have is that he gets hit by lightning before a family member of the victim gets a hold of him and skins him alive.

 

Mmm I mean say what you will but I disagree. I like the feel of shit on my barefeet sometimes, I mean if I'm out walking I'm going to step in mud and water soon enough afterward anyway

but not to joke lol... back to seriousness I just don't really know what to say I just disagree. I think everyone has hope, to deny this is to deny their humanity and the eternal being within them that is the same within all of us yaknow... you are denying that they are part of the All, which they definitely are. Good and Evil need each other to exist, like Light and Dark, you are separating opposites which are supposed to be joined. also personally I don't think anyone really chooses to hurt another being it is more that they choose to take the easier way out and give into temptation. temptation is a force and everyone has temptations regardless of how wicked they may be, I am sure there is a time when you have succumbed to temptations, not to compare those times to this because clearly what he has done is on another level of what humanity understands as Evil, but then again humanity doesn't really understand Evil, do we? If we truly understood Evil we would not fear or hate it I can tell you that for certain

 

You can call it evil, you can call it misguided love or you can call it bloopmorf for all I care. You can also offer hope to anyone you choose.

I will not in anyway offer comfort or hope to people who have made that choice, and make no mistake, giving into a temptation is just as much of a choice as anything else.

They choose to take these actions, they are responsible for those choices and they shall forever be responsible for them.

As I said earlier (and every time this subject comes up) save your love and compassion for the kids that these predators violate.

 

Where has this grampa been? Has he continued to molest other children along the way? Has he had counciling? You might want to do some kind of a back ground check on the 30 years he's been out of your lives.Also ,as Shale mentioned ,the recidivism rate is extremely high --you should check this out for yourself in order to make a more informed decision.You said your aunt is mean to her husband and children as a result of his actions ,so a conclusion can be drawn that she's suffered much and is still suffering and so are those around her--caused by this so-called grampa. How are the other aunts doing? I think it's up to the molested ones to forgive this man,if they can,which doesn't seem likely. If you communicate with this person and your aunts find out--how would they feel about you? -------------There's a moral obligation and natural inclination among people to protect children so they can grow up healthy and happy(hopefully) and don't have serious issues throughout their lives from the behaviour of adults around them. Adults,such as your grampa, are missing that moral compass to guide them and the results have been devastating to your family.Has he changed?Can he change? Maybe.Let me put it this way---I certainly wouldn't let him baby sit my grand daughter under any circumstances. I hope your family can heal from this,somehow.

 

I agree with Tom about temptations. Life is chock full of 'em and the decision/s we make are the measure of the depth of character in each of us.

 

You're starting to sound scary.

 

Because I don't beleive in forgiveness for predators?

 

I preach forgiveness as a survivor. Not as an assailent. I walked through that fire. I've been consumed by anger and resentment. I have spewed poison over it. And I have destroyed relationships over it. I've had flashbacks and nightmares. I've had Psychosematic pain. I have flown into rages. I've thought of suicide. And all of that stopped once I forgave my abuser. I am now more sad when I look back at my life and all the time I wasted being angry. But I was healing. I'm a stronger, more sensitive person now. I don't waste as much time with my anger now. I've mourned the Death of the child I started out as. And learned to appreciate the adult I've turned into. I don't recommend the experiences I've had to anyone, but I'm glad they happened to me. I used to want to be the avenging angel hiding in the shadows with the baseball bat. But now I've outgrown that. I see that every survivor deserves the chance to face their abuser or not to if they choose not. It's not up to me to make that decision for them.

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

I totally understand what you mean by this, but to me, it is missing the fact that the people who did this have shown the ability to do these things, what is there to stop them from doing it to another child?

That is why I have zero forgiveness in me towards ANYONE who is like that, regardless of whom they have done it to. They should be removed from society in one fashion or another so that they never have the opportunity to do it again.

It isn't from the perspective of an avenging angel, revenge accomplishes nothing. It is from the perspective of stopping that predator from having the opportunity again.

 

In my case it is because my abuser spends more time in jail than out. On top of the abuse he's inflicted he has a habit of getting caught stealing cars. He gets out just long enough to knock up another stupid fat chick with low self-esteem then it's back to jail with him. Plus he has his own abuse related psychosis. If anything I feel like I got off better than he did.

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

If you forgive them, there is nothing to stop them from doing it again. And if you DON'T forgive them there is still nothing to stop them doing it again. Stopping them from doing it again has nothing to do with forgiveness or lack of it. Only treatment will stop them.

Forgiveness is not about telling the perpetrator that he is okay. As Rev said, it is about the victim telling him/herself that he/she is okay.

 

I echo most of what ChronicTom has said.

Trying to find the good in all people is admirable. But in my opinion, the damage you will do to society by trying to Kumbaya a person that does not understand that sexually violating a pre-pubescent child is wrong is FAR OUTWEIGHS any possible good you might accomplish in the very tiny minority of cases where a pedophile might see the light. The ripples of malice that go out from the appalling level of sexual violence in our culture bound around and magnify one another and just continue to get worse. THE VERY MOST important thing in all such cases is making sure that the predation STOP. (With a bullet if necessary.)

 

Fuck the grampa-I'm concerned about the other members of the family healing from the damage he caused. It's time for them to heal,which may take some kind of confrontation with the perpetrator by the damaged to start healing.How or even why that should/could be accomplished--I don't know. I don't believe he should be accepted back into the family tho. I still say a back ground check should be done to find out what he has been doing for 30 years. Hell,he may have served jail time along the line for doing the very same thing to others.

 

If your grandfather wants to become part of the family again he must sincerely make amends to the ones he has wronged. Your Aunts must be willing to accept his apology for his actions and it is their call whether he can be a part of the family again. He was ostracized from your family by what he did to them and it's with them that he must re-enter. To do otherwise is an effort to get around the guilt, shame and whatever else he's feeling which means he isn't taking responsibility for his actions.

Your grandfather is almost certainly another victim of abuse and my heart goes out to him for his pain suffered at the hands of someone else. (Though this does not excuse his behavior.) Perhaps you should ask him whether this is true. That may be a good place to start if you're looking to bring your family back together. Help him to find the assistance he needs to heal. If he's not interested then perhaps its best he remain outside your family.

 

Because you're so fanatical. Fanaticism only contributes to more fear and hatred. Fanaticism is what gives us extremist groups and Unabombers.

 

And people like you who feel the need to tell people like me that there is something wrong with feeling this way about child molesters, and yet say nothing to child molesters is what gives us child molesters who think they have the right to do what they do.

Do I care what you think of my attitude towards the worst types of predators we have in our society?

Not anymore then I care about what the predators think of it.