Forgiveness

hmm has anyone on here actually been molested?(EDIT: besides tom and rev that is) less arguing about what people think and who knows who that has been molested- what is done with love and what isnt. unless you actually know what its like i dont think you can make some of those personal claims. does anyone actually know a molester? know them personally? everybody needs to argue less about petty shit because you all have really good points- as much as it hurts me to hear people say that they do deserve forgiveness of some sort i can respect that view point. i myself am not sure yet. i hate what the ordeal has done to me personally in many ways- but i wouldnt take it back for anything- im a fucking strong woman now and im gonna be even stronger on the other side of this- you sink or swim.
my father molested my half sister from the age of 3years old till 11years old. later in life realised the same thing had happened to me at a very young age that id managed to block out- he is my blood father however. he raped my mother countlessly and beat the fuck out of us throughout our whole childhood.
this is a free thinking forum yeah? i get pissed off when i read some of your opinions but i take them in regardless.
(EDIT: also its hard to forgive yes. but heres the thing- they have an illness that will always be with them- and will always make them a threat. forgiveness, i dont know, is it really going to do anything for them? i really dont know. forgive yourself- accept what they have done for your own peace of mind. whats theirs, is theirs though- they deserve to deal with whatever pain and damage they have put on their soul. let the law and karma and damage to their soul deal to them. as much as i want to murder all child molesters- it is pain through anger driving it. in my case its a little more fucked up since it was my father. i struggle with love and hate and pain and confusion over the whole dilemma. the reason why i hate/hurt over this the most? i find it hard to change my daughters diapers. i find it hard to shower her. i find it hard being a normal parent when it comes to the naked body or explaining body parts to her. thats what hurts more than anything. the constant fear that any male near her is going to hurt her. constant dreams and for myself- i find it hard to feel normal about sex and my own body.)

 

I think that it's amazing that even among the survivors on this thread that there isn't even a consensus. To me it shows the differences in peoples healing process. There is no way I can know anybody elses experiences but I know my own. Even though I am in the forgiveness camp I recognise all of the stages of anger I went through before I got here. While I disagree with a lot of the comments being made I hear where they are coming from.

To me the Healing Process is about the only place on Earth where it is OK to be selfish. In my case I was manipulated into taking care of somebody elses desires. I beat myself up for years for allowing it to happen but now I'm off the hook. I got tired of being angry all of the time. I did what I had to do to heal. I've listened to other survivors and their healing stories. Even though I havent had a full confrontation with my abuser and I don't feel that I need to I've talked to others who feel trapped because their abuser died before they had the chance to confront them. That is why I react negatively when I hear "Kill the abuser" because chances are they had more victims and I don't like seeing people getting stuck. By saying "Kill the Motherfucker" you are inadvertantly continuing the abuse by stopping the healing process. Even if the survivor doesn't make that step they should still have the option.

I know that I haven't changed anybody's mind. Nor do I wish to. I just feel that I have another perspective to add to the discussion.

Peace Out,
Rev J

 

i understand completely- when i put my anger aside- when i put the pain aside i completely agree. tomorrow i may feel different but i know in time i will find the forgiveness in me.
sigh. its just one of those topics that are confused by raw emotion (speaking for me personally) and listening to my logic and my soul. i know in time (i am still only young in the grand scheme of it all) i will be at peace with it as you are- listening to the angry mob though gets me fuelled up about it- my heart tells me to let it be for now though. time will tell

 

I took a while to think about this, so I could word it in a way that may be understood clearly, so I would really appreciate it if those who are in the forgiveness camp, would really take the time to read it and think about it.

I keep hearing (reading) things that equate my attitude to anger. This needs to be cleared up.

Do I feel anger over what happened to me? Yes.

Is that anger, the reason I feel that these predators should be shot and am more then willing to volunteer to do it?

NO

A person who has shown the ability and willingness to abuse a child, should be killed or otherwise totally and forever be removed from society for the very simple reason that they have demonstrated the ability and willingness to harm a child.

All I have to do is peer down the path of time to make this decision. Let's say you forgive a person who chose that path and advocated for other people forgiving them. They spend a couple of years being accepted back into society (or they haven't been forgiven) and one day do it again. You know who is just as responsible for that happening as the person who did it?

Those who said they should be forgiven.

This isn't about what they have already done to children, and the healing they may or may not need. This is about protecting any more children from being abused by people we KNOW are capable of doing it.

I can quite calmly and proudly state that I would gladly kill these predators in order to do so, with zero qualms about it.

Anger? Hell yes... Vengence? no...

 

i often want my father dead yes. but i know in my heart its not right. anger at the lives hes fucked up? yes. but the growth in these peoples lives he has affected? i wouldnt take it back- i would not take back what has happened to me- im more proud of myself than ever before. i have no desire to confront him. i often get really sad about it and want him dead. i once even thought about paying someone to do it- . but for me personally, when i am calm. when i sit and think about it- i do not want to kill him, i just want nothing to do with him. i do not however think that pedaphiles should ever be let out of jail. i think it should be a life sentence because- my father was not sent to jail once it was discovered what he had been doing. my sister decided against it so my younger sister and i could have a father- he did not learn. although he never touched me like that again- he did other weird things that were sexual- it still disturbs me. he also beat the shit out of us for lets say, dropping the milk on the floor, or making a little mess, hed make my younger sister and i take a shower together while he beat us with a metal spatula. im guessing he beat us so hard and so often to fight his urge to touch us. my guess. its weird to think he didnt treat us like that when wer werent children anymore.
id much prefer pedophiles stay in jail for life. and not in the secluded pedo section where they cant get killed and beat the fuck out of by other inmates for being kiddy-fiddlers, but in the regular jail whre they have to see what it feels like to fight for their own safety. for their own lives like we did as children. for every bruise and every sick thought that man put in my head- i wouldnt care if he was killed in jail for being a molester- i wouldnt be happy, i would be indifferent- feed him to the wolves, i will turn a blind eye.

NOW. if anyone touched my daughter- no doubt i wouldnt wait for the law to deal to him. he would be a dead motherfucker.

where does that leave me...?

 

There are two reasons off the top of my head as to why I disagree with the jail theory.

A) Why should society pay to keep them alive, give them healthcare, three meals a day, a warm bed, while some of their victems are so fucked up that they have none of these things as they try to hide on the fringes of society out of the terror that these predators installed in them?

B) To lock them away for life is punishment... another word for vengence... I don't care about vengence... What they did, they did... nothing will change it... I care about stopping them from doing it again.

We will never live in a society where we can 100% be assured that things like this will not happen to kids.

However, we can be 100% sure that one who gets caught doing it and dies for it will never have the chance to do it again.


I forgot something. Re-read what you said again...

I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that you only care about your children being harmed, did you?

 

nah i meant more that i dont want my father dead for doing me wrong- but if he did my daughter wrong i wouldnt be able to stop myself killing him. was merely wondering if that meant i really dont care as much for my wellbeing. here the thing i just realised. shouldnt my mum have felt that way about me? wanting to protect me like that? hmm. whatevs.

re: your comments. i dont believe we have the right to kill who we feel is fit. even if they are filthy. i would rather pay money to put them behind bars then have them contribute to paying the tax man. i wouldnt want them in society.

i cant say why id rather kill the person who hurt my daughter (hypothetically) and not the man that killed everyother child. im not trying to be hypocritical. its a hard one. i wouldnt want to kill anyone but id do it for my daughter obviously.

i understand your view point.
i just dont know if i could personally take it that far.

 

also tom they segragate the pedos. it would be fine if they put them in the regular part of jail. but people will argue that they have an illness.
ah fuck this its all too confusing. but i do hope that the OP is getting a clear idea of what this does to people. and in seeing the pain and distruction it causes people in her PERSONAL decision to forgive that man.

 

Yep- and by blaming some "illness" they can deftly sidestep assuming any responsibility for their behavior... and further victimize they people they've hurt.

 

See, this isn't about whether or not someone feels they are fit or filthy... this isn't about them at all, I don't care about them in any fashion.

I care about children and think they should be nutured and loved. To ensure this, I see no problems with killing someone.

I would kill to protect my child and I would kill to protect your child as well.

Without hesitation.

I NEVER want to have to explain to my daughter (or your's or somone elses child), why someone I knew was a predator was given the opportunity to do it to her.

I NEVER want to have to say, "yeah, I knew they were like that, but I thought there was a chance they may be okay now"

I NEVER want to have to apologize to a child for allowing this to happen if there was something I could have done to stop it.

Do you?

 

Sorry, I meant to address this earlier.

That is a question that every person who has been through this asks. Where were those that were supposed to love and nuture me when this happened.

I don't want to have to face those questions from future children.

 

I agree with this. I disagree with you saying that there is no need for vengeance though. At the very least, they should be assraped with a cactus and/or have their dicks painfully removed. Nothing would be able to stop me from inflicting some serious damage on a motherfucker if he hurt my children or my future stepdaughter. Also, sunberry.....keep in mind that I should NEVER meet you father when I come to NZ. Bad things will happen.

 

I didn't actually say there was no need for vengence. I said, that when I said, they should be killed and not forgiven, it wasn't about vengence. The issue of vengence is up to the person effected by the predator.

Keep that in mind if you do ever meet her father. Whatever you may do, it is up to her (the victem) as to wether or not it is vengence or just plain violence.

Make no mistake about this. I don't claim it is 'justified' to kill these people. I don't claim it is my (or anyone else's) right to do so. I won't even say that they 'should' suffer (although at times I may, but thats pure emotion speaking then).

All I say, is that for me personally, I have no qualms about taking a life to protect kids. It doesn't matter if that is in the heat of the moment, as in acting to save a child in immediate danger, or if it is to prevent (as much as possible) them from being in danger by killing those we know have chosen to harm them.

I'll give you an example of another nature... I love animals, have more respect for them then I do most humans, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a rabid wolf, and not just if it came on my property endangering my family, but if it was on my neighbors threatening his.

And that is for something that I have an inherent respect for, a wild free animal. I don't have any such thing for people who choose to harm children.

 

Indeed. Regardless though, there will be definite hostility, whether it be physical or otherwise. It is ultimately up to how she feels about it though.

Also, I agree that the punishment should be up to the victims, with molestation or any other form of assault/bodily harm.

I also agree with sunberry. If not death, then they should be in a position where their manhood is taken from them on a daily basis, whether that be in prison or otherwise. They should know what it feels like to be on the receiving end and they should suffer.....severely.

 

I think that is part of the reason I don't agree with jail. Because they can not know what it is to be on the recieving end, because it isn't just a physical act we are talking about.

It is an assault on innocence and non-judgemental love.

They have neither of those to be assaulted.

 

Nonetheless, it would be constant suffering, which is what they deserve. Prison or not, they have no innocence left in themselves that can be assaulted, so they may as well be ruthlessly violated by other inmates for the rest of their lives and be left to cry themselves to sleep everynight.

 

Seems that we are not allowed to kill them in our societies, I will agree that would be the next best thing.

 

Death may actually be too easy for them, anyway.

 

As I mentioned before, it isn't them I am concerned about.

 

Personally my ideas for dealing with them might be a bit extreme... but would involve dealing with the cause. You claim sick? Ok- well' let's just remove the malignancy and embark on hormone therapy so the urges don't resurface. Of course, tattooing something in large block letters across their foreheads might be what takes my idea over the top.