Friend Zone Sucks, how do i Escape?!?!

It's not about results, honey. It's all in the process...

Another reason I'm disillusioned with women is that they always flee: from arguments, from intimacy, from sex, from human interaction...

We can't afford to be scared rabbits and leap away from each other just because of our difference in gender and perspective.

One "result" you could derive from talking to me openly is the understanding that I'm no less angry with men than I am with women. What I resent are GENDER ROLES, whoever plays them. They impoverish my life tremendously.

But I'm starting to think you lack arguments anyway, and that's why you avoid them. I might have better luck in finding a woman with arguments at the feminist meeting tonight. arty:

 

haha
you guys are just funny
i'm really tired mentally to argue... but i'll try
first, most of things you are talking about or accusing women- they can as well concern men. I mean it's not the matter of sex difference. Lots of people strive for unreachable things, indifference rises interest...it's true about every human and not only about women. Do ya personaly have much interest to girls ya can easily get? Moreover if a person is so easy to tie a contact with, one can doubt his/her smartness and deep personality. We all want smth worthy (at least people i'm used to talk to)
If ya say ya know me just because i'm a woman, sorry, but it's narrow-mindness. I cant judge you merely by the fact ya are male...
If women alw flee form you, maybe the problem is in you? It's easy to accuse someone; it's not so easy to admit your own faults. Maybe ya subconsciously seek such girls (just as ya said about me seeking indifferent people)
i know there are quite a lot of girls who are ready to have occasional sex with strangers. The matter is when it's about a guy, it's ok, he's just "Don Juan" and people even respect him for this. If it's about a woman, she's "a whore", though what are the grounds for such treatment?
i'm not a femenist
i just strive for justice
i hate evil assumptions and prejudices
i hate being involved in such dirty talks where all you want is to get pleasure from humiliating others

 

Geez, neponiatka. I don't know who you're answering to. I don't agree with all that has been said by cowboy blue. So you're going to have to specify what part of your post is a response to mine.

Anyway, I just want you to know:

1) I have NEVER called a woman a "whore" for "being easy." One thing you should know about me is that I grew up under a feminist mother, and I'm highly influenced by it. At least a certain kind of feminism. I have frequently had looooong arguments with male friends of mine who called women "whores" for making sexual choices that concern none other than them. I am ALL for complete equality and freedom for both women and men as to their sexual choices --- I'm ALL AGAINST gender roles, stereotypes, and double-standards. One of the things I frequently ask male friends of mine is: "You want to have sex with a lot of women? That by definition would imply that women are going to be having a lot of sex too!"

2) Speak for yourself on the indifference issue. I have absolutely NO desire to come even near anyone who's indifferent. As a matter of fact, all but 1 of the 13 or so women I've had sex with in my life HAVE INITIATED TOWARDS ME. The longest relationship that I've had, with a woman that I respect more than any other, was with my ex-girlfriend. And she initiated towards me, and brought me home and had sex with me the first night. I considered that A PLUS. Here's a woman who doesn't play games, I thought...And we were together for 3 years;

3) I am not accusing women per se. GENDER ROLES are the enemy (one of them being "the hard to get"), not women. I didn't say I know YOU because you're a woman, but I do know the GENDER ROLE you're playing because I've seen it repeatedly. Therefore it is not an "evil" assumption or prejudice --- it is EXPERIENCE. That being said, I don't wish you to feel humiliated at all. I simply wish you would question certain patterns and dynamics that take place between women and men;

4) THAT BEING SAID, gender roles do exist. And frankly, cowboy blue is right (and you're an example) that when men treat women like shit they are more likely (with exceptions far and between) to draw their attention than when they treat women nicely. Sad but true...

5) Myself, I much rather be alone. That is my disappointment with women: I once thought that because I behave towards women respectfully and on a level plane, that they would recognize it as a desireable thing, but they mostly don't. I won't play gender games in order to get a cheap fuck. I'll go to a prostitute (and, yes, I respect prostitutes for the human beings they are) before I do that;

Who's assuming what about whom?

 

thanks for helpin out retards, open ur own thread to argue on...i hate when ppl just do this..

 

i'm really sorry, hebrewnational,
but we've given you advice already.... it's up to you now

i dont honestly believe in gender roles
i believe evry person chooses a model of behaviour himself
i dont know whwt are you talking about... i personaly dont like people treating me like shit, i hate being humiliated, i hate indifference, i dont want it to enter my life, that's why i'm sad because i feel it now

really how can i have any wish to discuss or argue when all i read is filth and joy to humiliate me pouring out evil and negative vibes you've accumulated? (i dont mean fexurbis)

i dont need to come to this forum to read all this
real life is full of such shit
i dont need any of it here, i just come here positivity or at least respect

peace and love

 

as a girl my suggestion is to look her deep in the eyes when dancing move in for the lips hold her tight around the waist and let the good times roll. how could she possible resist??? remember take charge women love it

 

To hebrewnational:

My advice is this ---

1) first and foremost do not try to impress her...Do not put yourself in a position where you're begging for her attention.

2) If anything, the opposite. Give yourself the right for a "Yes" and a "No". Understand that you have the right to reject women, no matter how pretty and nice they might be.

3) Select your women willfully. Slowly...Be suspicious of infatuations, of flirtations...Select the women that have SOMETHING TO OFFER. Being pretty and articulate shouldn't be enough. Be not afraid to be alone, until a woman who's worth your while comes along. IF, however, all you want is affection or sex, either go to a hooker or go to a bar and drink vodka. Then look for a woman who's looking at you, and grab her...

4) Which leads me to my last point: Have you ever tried grabbing her? I've gotten women in the past without uttering a single word. I remember this one bartender who fell for me. She was putting money in the jukebox, and, without a word, I came behind her and grabbed her. When you feel like "asking for a hug" you're putting yourself in a position of inferiority. What you should do is just go ahead and hug her. She might resist, but make sure that she resists with the same decisiveness that you showed. Until she does, you got a chance. And if she does? So what, there are about 3 billion women in this planet. You don't depend on her one bit...

All this may seem a little abstract and crazy. But here I have laid out my observations and thoughts of 30 years dealing with women. BE SOVEREIGN. BE SKCEPTICAL OF ANYTHING THAT TAKES AWAY FROM YOUR INDEPENDENCE FROM WOMEN. ACT SLOWLY AND FORCEFULLY. NOT BECAUSE OF INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL PRESSURES. ALLOW YOURSELF THE PRIVILEGE TO SPONTANEOUSLY FOLLOW YOUR NOSE.

That sovereignty takes a while to master. Most men never do. That's why they spend their entire life trying to impress women and buying them drinks. Don't be one of them!

But be not mistaken: along with this sovereignty, there is much loneliness and self-overcoming. You aren't independent because it feels good, you're independent because you respect yourself.


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Neponiatka, there is an obvious contradiction in what you say. Of course tasting indifference isn't anyone's cup of tea...BUT, you also say you like him all the more for it. So which is it?


I meant to argue a further point: Women are an oppressed population with many contradictions and self-esteem problems. When you say, "Maybe the problem lies in you when you are avoided", that to me attests to a self-esteem problem. Only women with self-esteem problems are attracted by indifference, and that means A LOT of women have that problem. My question is: if there is a problem with people that are treated with indifference, what then is YOUR problem?



Just so you know, I actively avoid women. These days women need to do a lot more than look pretty for me to give them the time a day. I actually just rejected a woman yesterday...Not out of meaness, but because (and this is hard for women to understand) if I'm looking for a cheap fuck I can go to a hooker --- if not, then you gotta do more than look pretty.

 

Cowboy_Blue,

I understand your point. But I rather say that women ACT like whores, and they are compelled to do so by machismo. There is nothing inherent in women that makes them be the dopes most (but not all) of them are. It is us, men AND women, who everyday create the reality of women who are motivated by money and other favors.

I therefore took it upon myself the responsibility to never treat women any different than I would a male. I DON'T WANT women to be whores.

 

Just pick your balls up off the floor and make a move for fuck sakes.

Life is simple, make choices and don't look back.

If you don't make a move, that may be exactly what drives her away and keeps you stuck in the friend zone.

Plain and simple, girls like a guy who knows what he wants and isn't afriad to go for it.

 

There is some decent advice in here, some terrible advice... my comments are the following:

- Yes some women go for asshole guys, but these women are stupid. The reason why they go for assholes is because assholes are tough and confident. Even smart, nice, mature girls like guys who are tough and confident. That brings me to my next point...

- It is true that the less you seem to care about the outcome, the more likely you are to succeed. HOWEVER... that is only true to a point. Obviously, you must actually talk to the woman, you must show some interest, etc... but the point is, the more you try to impress her, the more you TRY to win her attention/affection, the more obvious it will be that you are chasing after her and you then give her all the power... and a lot of women are turned off by guys who seem like helpless, needy little boys. Of course there are exceptions to everything, and a truly loving person is going to enjoy the company of anyone who is simply nice and respectful, so it really just comes down to being yourself and not putting too much pressure on yourself or her.

 

try talking about it too, but in a nonchalant, non pressuring way.

Just flat out tell her how you feel, and ask her if this is more than a friendship.

Kind of funny because i was stuck in this same position just about a week ago, someone who I had been seeing for a while, she always wants to chat, hang out etc, but I didn't feel like it was moving forward, she didn't let me kiss her(I am pretty forward and never afraid to make the first move btw). I finally asked her if she just wanted to be friends and i was cool with that(of course if that were the case I probably would have quit spending so much time with her) and she told me that it was more than just friends, as it turns out she is just very shy when it comes to certain things. Finally, got a real kiss from her just last night

So thats my story, go with your gut and don't be afraid to make a move. Whats the worst that can happen

 

Ok, there is a lot of hot air being blown in this thread, and in response to some of the other statements here, its really not that complicated.

The statement of 'women like guys who treat them like shit' - false.

They like guys who are not pussys, not necessarily assholes. It is possible to be a nice guy, but be assertive. If you think that treating a woman badly is going to get you anywhere, you are never going to get anywhere.

So, when a woman calls a guy a 'nice guy', usually that means he is really nice, but a doormat, that has no backbone and will jump when she says jump. There is nothing wrong with treating a woman good, but not because she expects it, or asks for it, do it because its what YOU want to do, and not what she wants. Any time anyone I am dating starts acting like she deserves something just based on the fact of being a woman, or being pretty, I stop being nice.

For example those silly girls who try to flirt with you just to scam a free drink at a bar. Hell no!! I will never buy one of those cheapass girls a drink. Now, if I have been chatting with a girl all night, dancing with her, and having a good time, I will offer a drink.
So, in short, don't be a pussy.

 

ok, so heres another update.
she came with me to go get my tux measured for prom, the ride there was great, great convos n all. while i was gettin measured n stuff was kind of akward lol too quite n wierd lol. then after we left the store she was txting for like 35 min and it kind of annoyed me..... but i stayed calm, n just played along.
after that... the way back was alright we talked n laghfed n stuff. overall we had a good time. i still think i like her a lot...but idk what shes expecting. like i feel like im not doin somethin right for some reason, even though we do what we were plannin on all the time and we have a good time which is good. i still feel like im doin somethin wrong!!!! wat do u guyz think?!
lol we were in this store and we were walkin buy the mattress section...n she said "that matress looks empty..achem achem" and laghfed and i was like yea it doess, i c wat ur sayin... hahah

wat do u guyz thnkk?!
__________________

 

you are passive, maybe that's what you do wrong

 

this is getting ridiculous. make SOME sort of move or (so help me god) I will refer to your debacle with this girl henceforth whenever I need an anecdote about guys who never get anywhere because they're too awkward.

we all know you can it hebrewnational100!