Gay Cure MERGED

agreed.

Erasmus, do you believe that we simply don't want to love/be attracted to the other sex, or that we aren't capable of love the opposite sex?

Because as themistress stated, there were environmental factors that may have played a role in her sexuality. Do you just believe that she is ignoring her inclinations towards men?

In my case, I don't think it has ever been a question of my environment. I have a great relationship with my father, we have our differences, but we still enjoy activities together. I also had a great relationship with my mother. As long as I can remember I have been attracted to men. Even in elementary school I would have "crushes" on boys. I never really realized this difference until the end of my elementary days. When I got into middle school, I tried to repress my homosexual feelings, and attempted to have feelings for girls. Every single relationship I have had with a girl since then had been fake, I am unable to love them. Sexually, there is nothing there either, It just doesn't feel right.

Are you suggesting that we, homosexuals, should ignore our attraction/ability to love the same sex, and marry a person of the opposite sex?

 

I don't think that is what s/he's saying, no.

 

Im genuinely interested in the replies.
Actually Im a little bit surprised because I didnt expect such quality discussion.
I will try and do a little more research this weekend and get back to all five of you with something more substantial.

 

sounds good.

 

Considering how horrified most parents are to find out that their child is gay(lesbian/bisexual) I doubt seriously that it would be "trendy" to have you child modified to be gay. Unfortunately, the truly accepting parent is a rare animal indeed.

 

Well apparently all of our comments are not as interesting as you say (grin) The post in question was my request to add one of your "comments" about me to my sig as I rather liked it although I am sure you did not intend for me too. Being as it was a quote from you I (as is customary) asked your permission to use it.

 

hippypaul, what was the comment???

 

I don't see how people who are gay, just the same as straight people, both of them which nature has clearly created, can be deemed 'against nature'. I feel that by their very existence, they are evidence that nature is not against them. They are, in my view, a part of nature, and therefore, not able to be anything but 'with nature'.
If I was told my someone that I 'wasn't meant to be', I would have trouble seeing that as not 'bashing' me.
I would be ecstatic if bigotry did not exist, and I wish it didn't, but, it does. So, though I despise it, I cannot state that I believe it wasn't meant to be. Two people who find love, and connect and bond with each other, is a blessing. It is a wonderful, lovely thing, that can only be good for both of them. It soothes loneliness, and brings joy to their hearts when that was lacking. Whether they are gay or not is totally immaterial. It is a good thing, and is doing nobody else any harm whatsoever, which something that I cannot say about bigotry.

 

I think it'd be true to say that parents either don't want gay kids, or don't care one way or the other. I doubt many would (for example) actively encourage their kids to experiment with their sexuality, let alone choose to have a gay child. My parents were more concerned about me joining an overtly promiscuous and emotionally shallow culture (something which, in retrospect, I'm glad they discouraged me from) than they were with the actual mechanics of my sex life; in other words, they didn't if I was gay or straight, as long as I wasn't a slut.

 

I so agree... trendiness must be the worst motive there is for a parent to try to change a child. I feel kids are of their parents, but do not belong to them. They are a responsibility, and to nurture, support, encourage, assist, and teach them is wonderful. But to force them to be what you think they should be, or coerce them into changing to fit your model of them... that is not my concept of love. Loving who they are, unconditionally, and accepting them wholly, as hard as that may be, shows them respect, and says that they are okay. That is hard for most people to do with strangers, let alone their kids. Kids might be the toughest people to resist trying to change that one will ever meet. They may be a lot like us, but they are not us, and shouldn't be.

 

On 01-06-2006, Erasmus 70 stated “btw.. I dont hate anyone.. except maybe people who are deliberately deceiving people.
That not you though.. you are a willing victim of those sorts as near as I can tell.”



I rather liked the sound of “a willing victim of those sorts” and have been asking for permission to use it in my sig. I think it has a sort of ring to it.

BTW I love your sig

 

LoL it is pretty neat sounding
Thanks, I like you lil bunny thing, I see it all the time, its real cute!

 

Oh.
By all means feel free to put that in your signature.
Im not sure if you are asking me but feel free.
Its appropriate.

Hey, its funny because I was spending some time thinking through this conversation here.
One of the things apparent to me is that, like most things, there are always a multifold of issues that accounts for our behaviors.
One of the funniest 'Gaythink' catchphrase rhetorics in the last decade was to say something like:
"What.. you think I just woke up one morning and say Hey.. I think I will be gay now".
Of course, thats ridiculous and there is almost nothing we do that would ever start like that.
Nobody 'wakes up one day' and says 'Hey.. I think Im gonna be an Alcoholic/Anorexic/Chain smoker/Public Servant..."

We have gone over the possibility that it is a genetic defect in which babies are just 'born' as some sort of third gender or some different kind of human.

There is also the classic psychological issues here - the distant or absent Father, the domineering mother.

The funny thing was that it was an episode of 'The Family Guy' which grabbed and worked out something I have been looking at - and did so better than any internet link or study etc.
The basic Premise is that Meg is mistaken to be a 'Lesbian'.
She doesnt think she is a lesbian but.. they take her to the lesbian group in school.
She wants to have friends and be accepted so.. she just 'becomes a lesbian'.

Now this makes me think about Hipaul (or is it Hipunk) who describes the very common 'gay child' story in which he remembers incidents where he was doign things now associated with a 'gay man'.
Hanging out with girls.
Being at their tea parties.
By the sounds of it, many of the older boys at school, maybe the teachers and maybe even his own mother just decided he was 'like a gay boy'.
Maybe his father is a classic 'Hank Hill' and thinks the boy is 'a gay' because he doesnt like Hunting or is gentle or maybe even because he is artistic.

In reality, the boy has never even thought about wanting to have sex with another man.
Never even considered such a thing.
But
Eventually he just begins to take on that identity and even look for things to confirm it.
During some sexual embarrassment/discovery gets a boner while changing with another boy.
Someone tells him that "if you are gay then you get boners looking at naked men'.
Now he is even more convinced that its always been true.

If you want my opinion -this has got more to do with people 'becoming gays' than even the other causes like the Dominant Mother or this other theory that some 'different hormones and brain sensors' are somehow mixed up.

Of course, I would be sure there are always several factors that are going on at the same time.. and interconnect and given the moral situation - then theres your explanation more than anything else.

 

I know gay men who have been gay all their lives, they just didn't know it for a few years. Everything clicked and made sense when it came out later in life, all the behaviours that were just somehow slightly different than the other boys were, in one revelation, solved. I am quite sure that there are as many reasons someone is gay as there are gay people, but from my observations, limited as they may be, the concept Erasmus returns to in many different forms, which is that some event, experience, trauma, or condition in ones youth is presumed to have 'made' someone gay. I doubt that. Maybe in rare cases. I have a different image of the biological aspect too, in that I do not consider any possible genetic predisposition to be a defect. No more than brown hair, blue eyes, and big ears would be.
I feel that the important point is not how, or why someone is gay. The important thing is that they are gay, and it is about accepting them just the way they are that I see as the good choice. I don't see any reason not to.
I chuckled when I read the 'boner in the change room' comment.
I'd have to say that if you got a boner from looking at the other boys, you might want to really get in touch with your sexuality. I know I never did, but I do think I have a little bit of 'gay' in me. Isn't that fabulous? Must have been from watching too much Monty Python as a kid....

 

Its extremely common and actually its 'typical' for children, around the age of five to go through a period of intense sexual curiousity.
This usually lasts for just about one year and then they do not return to the interest again until they hit puberty.
Parents and professionals will tell you that this is interesting because its a 'asexual' sexual curiousity.
In other words - they dont really know or care about who is who and for example - two boys may examine each others peni no more or less or differently than a boy and a girl.
They maybe be siblings, cousins or strangers.
They want to know why ones pee-pee is missing or if they all have bumholes and if they can stick things in them.

Where I see a problem and a clue is with the 'Hank Hill' or 'Will@Grace loving Mum' who discovers this and then decides 'AHA.. my boy is 'a gay' and I just found proof of it'.
Wrong.
No more than the example of cousins are 'Born Incestuous' or the boy and the girl are discovered to be 'born to be Doctors' becuase they were playing such.

Later, someone using homosexuality to either compensate for a trauma or to indulge in easy sexual gratifications (and I think both happen at once most times) can look back on this period and say "See... I was born as 'a gay' and that proves it right there".
Or
"Well its true I was artistic and gentle and did not like hunting so .. that 'goes to show' accordign to my Dad"
Bullshit I say.

 

Good job those people only exist in any quantity on TV then, otherwise you'd be livid 24 hours a day.

At the risk of pandering to "Gaythink" (can you elaborate on this term? does it relate to those awful T-shirts?), I'd be more inclined to trust homosexuals on this one. Personally I never had any kind of moment of revelation, didn't talk to anyone about my sexuality until long after I knew what it was, and have been gay literally as long as I can remember. I guess there is the odd occasion where people feel pressure into choosing an orientation based on childhood experience. But I think most people would have the sense to notice whether they had the odd "boner in the changing rooms" moment or continuous and heartfelt homosexual drives and desires. The former category may suffer some confusion, but I can honestly say that when you've never been attracted to a woman in your life, it's difficult to entertain the idea that you've just been fooling yourself for the past 10 years or whatever.

 

Erasmus70 just for the record do you think that being gay is a bad thing. I realize that is getting away from the "hypothetical" tone of the discussion. In addition, it is of course somewhat of an impertinent question so you may well not answer. Nevertheless, there is such an undertone of dislike in all your comments that I wanted to ask you straight out.

 

I think its psychologicaly unhealthy, in major part due to stress on a persons physiology as well.
Will you die from it - I dont think so.
Will you cease to cope with daily activities - No.
Will you go insane - Probably not.

Do I think it will deprive a person at a good chance for a healthy and positive natural relationship with someone of the opposite sex and is that a crying shame - Yes.

Will it contribute to ones overall unhappiness level and limit their potential.
Yes.

Will it inspire hate, intolerance, petty vindictiveness and spite in many people - Yes.

Are some of the best intended, good-hearted and loving people on the planet engaging in homosexuality - Yes.

Are some of the sickest, truly disturbed and downright nasty people engaging in it - boy howdy is that true!

Is Pat Robertson a freakshow - Yes.

 

I'd be laughing at this thread (and E70 in particular) if it weren't so damned sad...

No, I would not "cure" my child.

A few points I'd like to make...
I believe homo/bisexuality is partly genetic, partly inborn, partly caused by environment/upbringing etc.
Inborn does not mean genetic, as there are other factors to a foetus' development in the womb. Genetic does not mean that there is one specific gene responsible, nor does it mean that it is a genetic defect.
People do not become gay because other people perceive some of their behaviors as gay (for example playing with dolls instead of cars). I used to play with cars, Lego and a little bit with dolls. Did my parents think "oh, she's bisexual"? No. Do I justify my own bisexuality with it? No. (I don't even believe in boys &cars and girls &dolls prejudice, I'm sure some straight boys want to play with dolls too)

I am bisexual myself. That means I am attracted emotionally AND sexually to both genders. Yes, sex is a factor. But love also is. Love is not the same thing as friendship, and moreover, there are several kinds of love, but E70 seems to be uncapable of making that distinction... Love is not caused by having sex. A person's behavior does not determine their sexual preference. I was bisexual before I ever had sex.
I am not a drug addict, nor traumatised and trying to cope, or whatever...

We cannot choose who we are attracted to... We can choose how we act on those attractions, but to act against our attractions will only make us unhappy.
I have had a healthy and positive relationship with a girl. A healthy and positive relationship doesn't depend on the gender of the partner, it depends on if the two people involved are emotionally and sexually compatible and attracted to each other.

I resent the use of the word natural... Do you find cameras or televisions naturally occurring in nature? No. Do you find same-sex sexual behavior in nature? Yes. Do you find non-reproductive sex in nature? Yes (dolphins for example).
I find the idea of "sex is purely for reproduction" very sad for those who believe it... If you're infertile, I guess you shouldn't have sex? Oh dear, God must have made a mistake, if he gave infertile people sex organs and the possibility to orgasm, but not the ability to conceive...
Anuses are not meant to be stimulated by penises (or fingers)? Beards are not "meant" to be shaved. Ears are not "meant" to support glasses....

Oh well, don't know why I bother replying, pointless no doubt...

 

I can agree with those 3 points. The rest of them had a strong anti-gay sentiment to them, and I don't agree with them.
btw, Erasmus, thanks for the early childhood psychology stage information, it sounded quite believable. I still feel that being gay is unlikely to be strongly influenced by that though, if it is something all of us go through. I remember wondering where girls peed out of, all I saw was hair.
As for the stress, that is from lack of acceptance by others mostly, so it is something that is wrong with other people, fix them, and then they won't cause so much stress for gays.
It is clear that a gay person is not accepted as being normal by you, but is somehow 'wrong', and needs to be fixed so you can accept him. I just accept them as they are, good enough, live and let live. Be happy.
The point about gays being deprived of a +ve, healthy, natural hetero relationship sounds the same as saying that heteros are being deprived of a +ve healthy natural homosexual relationship.
If they are truly gay, they will likely not miss it.
Limited potential, not in IQ testing at least, where gays score higher than us slow straight folk, on average.
Most limitations are imposed on them by intolerant others.
The boy howdy point has me looking for a motive for the choice of terminology, tone and phrasing. It is just as true a statement for straight people, so I don't understand the point of it. Bad straight folk? boy howdy yeah!