Gay Marriage

Sir, you're very ignorant. Gay people are gay because they had a "strange life as a child or youre sex crazy"? Jesus Christ, most women don't hate men either. Being gay is a natural thing, it's not just something that people "think" they are. You have to realize that not everyone is the same, and there is such a thing as being gay, a real thing, not something "imagined."

 

oh my god...yes flowerchild, that is indeed some of the most ignorant drivel I've ever read in my entire life.

 

listen lady very ignorant i would ask you to be kinder, but your obviously a BiA. Anyway my views are my views and if you dont like them I dont care. I truly do believe it is not a clinical condition to be gay it is a confusion, and I have done my research in mental health books as well as many other books on similar subjects and nobody can prove the theory wrong Read DR. mark Okeefe's book's and they may convince you, but fact seems to have little effect on people who are "Different" like yourself. I do not discriminate in public, and I can be kind to Gays, but maybe the reason you don't like the idea is ur gay and you dont like the fact that I am pointing out to everyone that what you suffer from is confusion.

 

Being Gay is a natural thing?

I suppose its happening 'in nature' and with our natural bodies, however many people will tell you its a 'Sexual Fetish' and often the result of some psychological impairment.

Im not aware of any reason to believe they are born with physically different bodies.

You seemed to state all that as if it was a fact and not to be disputed anymore.
Do you tolerate any other views (i.e. the Traditional Psychiatric view that its a mental illness)?

 

sure i can fall in love with another man, just as fast as ill fall in love with a dog, or god, or music, or my car, the fact that you all consider yourselves different sexually, and deserve certain rights for that difference is ignorant Just stop being so damn insane if everyone just used common sense we would be fine

 

I did not start a fight i offered my opinion and some people dont like it when others opinions differ from they're own I do my homework i would not type it without validity

 

Flowerchild I cant help notice that your only 15 years old, ah such a confusing age. Im not suprised that you think you have figured it all out, but you will realize the world will pull you a million different directions, one thing i know for sure is that i was not trying to offend anyone thats why i used nice words, all i have done is offer my medical and scientific knowledge to you all to try to make a rational idea out of this madness

 

Aha. I see. The clear argument against gay marriage is that it's just 'un-natural'. Well there you have it folks, let's mark up the constitution. The experts have arrived.

 

thank u at least you understand my argument that is all i asked

 

I hate it when people make assumptions that just because you're young, you're ignorant. And "medical knowledge"? It's not like being gay is some medical condition that's "treatable" or something...

 

a BiA??

seriously don't know what that means

I said it was ignorant drivel. i didn't say you were stupid. hell, my own father thinks homosexuality is the most disgusting thing in the world. I don't suffer from confusion though hon. I did when I was younger and just figuring out what I really am. Now I know. I'm bisexual, and I'm monogomous. I've fallen in love with a woman...it wouldn't work out. I tried to date another woman after a few other guys. She just wanted sex. I met my now fiance, and so I'll be marrying a man next June. I know exactly who I am. There is zero confusion there. You've read studies, I've read studies...hell, I bet a lot of us have read studies or read about studies. There are studies out there for everything, and everyone can find one that suits their beliefs. I'm sorry I offended you, but what you said is also offensive. Of course you believe it's the truth, and "the truth hurts" I'm sure. But I don't believe it's true, and I do find it offensive that you'd consider my love, confusion. You find it offensive that I consider you...or in all actuality, that study, ignorant.

of course i understood it...I've heard it before...but I still find it ignorant.

 

Well at this point since the argument for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage has drifted in the direction of it being 'mental - illness' I think it's fair to ask exactly where in the DSM - IV, ICD-9(current), or any official (current please) statements from the APA that homosexuality is defined as a 'mental illness'. Well, that's not fair, it's a rhetorical question because 'medical knowledge' simply does not define it as an illness. Sorry, the argument's bunk. Gay's are not 'mentally ill'.

flowerchild89 hits the nail on the head.

 

Whats interesting is that the Psychiatric Illness (first called 'Homosexuality' and in fact where the name comes from) was removed from the books for NO OTHER REASON than because of political intimidation from 'Homosexuals' who insisted they were not 'Ill'.

You will find that 'Homosexuality' has been removed from the books somewhere there in the 70's.
Try as you might - you will NOT find the reason why.

Nope.. there was no 'Discovery' that knocked it off the books.

Now here is the telling thing.. IF a patient WANTS to be treated for 'Homosexuality' THEN he can admit himself for treatment for his/her 'Homosexuality' affliction.

For Political reasons.. the Psychiatrist is NOT allowed to tell the patient its a mental illness UNLESS the patient first requests it be regarded as such.

Bet ya didnt know that?

 

Quite the contrary. The original removal of Homosexuality as a disorder from the DSM (in the 70's) was the result of overwhelming evidence through several studies. It was later re-instilled into the DSM III, 1980 based upon political/ideological grounds that fell far from science. Basicly, they changed the wording and hoped it would quell those still insisting upon it though evidence was clearly showing the opposite. The DSM III-R , 1986 included the revision of removing the newly named 'ego-dystonic homosexuality' from the book due, once again, to the protest of the majority of professional community based upon evidence. The DSM IV makes no reference as well.

The little tale about psychiatrists not being allowed to tell their patients that homosexuality is an illness is correct because it isn't. What you describe, I believe, may come from a common myth over gender indentity issues which are symptomatic of various other pathologies. In effect, a person shows up and says 'please treat me, I think I'm homosexual'', a man shows up "I've had sex with other men, I need help", is a marker for further assessment into possible primordial patterns indicative of other illnesses. Based on that action alone, the statement followed by admittance, I believe people have tried to argue that they are being treated for 'Homosexuality' when in fact they are not.

You seem to believe that there is this great conspiracy against the hetero population by some unseen body working behind the scenes. Quite frankly, that's a bit paranoid.

 

At this point I cant remember if it was in Britain, Canada or the USA (and I keep thinking it was in the USA?) but 'Homosexuality' was removed from 'The Book' only AFTER Political 'Action' was taken against the Psychiatrist Associations.

Now.. these groups were armed with a lot of intimidation and political pressure along with THEIR own 'Studies'.

So, when you say there was 'Academic Research' which changed the books - I think that is what we really mean.
The Established Psychiatric world was more 'told' to use these few 'counter studies' as justifiable reason enough to get that politically dangerous illness OUT of those books.

I definately remember seeing some fierce protests outside the psychiatric institutions.
The Gay Rights groups were fighting mad about it.
Just during that same period that Illness got removed (rather abruptly too)

Then the protesters went away.

Ahhh good times.

 

Once again, you have it backwards.

Attempting to marginalize the evidence and throwing up the 'gay conspiracy' all over again. What a wonderful play on ideas and words but it doesn't cut it. Homosexuality is not an illness. Get over it. Science wins.

 

There was a Gay Conspiracy.
You can tell that by the fact they got together and had signs saying 'Gay is not a Disease' and stood outside Psychiatric institutes and shouted in Unison "Being Gay is not an Illness".

Then it was removed from the Book the following year or so.

Thats what happened. Sorry.

Im not arguing for for it being a mental illness anyway.
I think its a sexual fetish.

 

while I appreciate your sentiment, homosexuality is NOT how some people choose to live their lives. Homosexuality is an integral part of the homosexual, just as heterosexuality is an integral part of the heterosexual. The longterm (un)success rates of NARTH and other ex-gay ministries attest to that fact.

 

Even IF this were the ultimate cause of homosexuality, it still leaves little to no choice on the part of the individual. I am afraid I don't follow your logic with this argument, which, in the end, is a futile argument at best.

As for homosexuals in public, would you ever suggest that your marriage should only be evident behind closed doors? Marriage, which is undoubtedly a very important part of our culture, requires witnessess, and public commitment, and is usually completed with rings, further cementing the publicity of the relationship. Many people in Richmond, Virginia, are still disgusted by interracial marriages. Would you suggest that Virginia could either change the 1967 Loving v Virginia court decision that allowed such unions, or maybe they could impose restrictions on them, requiring them to only "appear married" in the privacy of their own home, so as not to offend the sensitivities of the public.

Whats really amazing about being such an "advanced" life form, is that we still have to defacate, and fight ignorance.

 

If being gay were a "confusion," being caused by a "crazy life," etc, then it would be a clinical condition.

You are right that it is not a clinical condition, and should not or cannot be treated or cured.