"God" and pain

Libertine, you are too preoccupied with how other's screw up. It's not about others, it's about you. Don't base your life and decisions on people. We're not supposed to follow the followers, cause "we all like sheep have gone astray". Follow the Lord. You keep coming back to Christian's downfalls. And how hypocritical they are. But you'll never move along if you dont set your attention on things more worthy of your time. "Whatever is good, whatever is true, whatever is noble, think about these things." Seems you have more a problem with Christians that you do with God.

 

he's not exposing christian lies, he is showing his inability to get over the fact that humans are not perfect even when they claim to be christian. Shouldnt he be more focused on good things? Just like CHristians shouldnt sit around and complain about how evil the world is, the world shouldnt sit around and complain about how hypocritical and imperfect Christians are. BOth are a complete waste of energy that can be used for good.

 

This is something that God has to show you. It's comparable to being a character in a movie- all the other characters are scripted too, so seemingly unrelated plotlines (thoughtlines) match up in ways that cannot be explained without a higher mind guiding things. Of course, since I am only a character, I cannot show you- the director has to arrange this stuff for you- no player can do so.

Until you see evidence otherwise. I was a skeptic too. Took a lot of unexplainable shit (from the natural perspective) before I understood that the stuff wasn't simply coincidence.

Yeah. After a while, you realise that the natural answers are not fulfilling. They just don't capture the true essence of reality. You could just keep on explaining everything that God does through natural means, like "there is somebody deliberately plotting to convince me that God exists" (there is) but the depth of the undertaking is too great and costly for a man to do.

Yup..

It seems that the better I get to know God the more I understand the bible. Before, the words seemed to be a sales pitch, or something else, just crazy shit, but after I began to know God, i found that what is written in the bible is a really good description of God. I didn't understand it correctly before- the first times I looked at it, because I did not have enough actual experience of God's actions to understand. Sorta like picking up a physics book without any background in math or science, without actually seeing electricity, heat, etc. in a physics lab- your understanding might be scewed until you have the experience that allows you to understand the knowledge in the book.

 

"unexplainable"...hmmm...by whom? By you? So, because YOU cannot explain it or it has yet to be explained, thus "it is supernatural, God did it". Kharakov, you just proved the point I've been making. Unexplained doesn't equal inexplicable! Lack of evidence is not evidence. Everything that has ever been explained, has been explained naturally. Mysterious doesn't equal "God did it". Subjective feelings do not equal objective fact.

You ASSUME it wasn't coincidence, therefore your mind fills the unexplained gap with what the culture has been conditioned to fill it with--"God". And readily, the "God" of the Bible. The remainder of the gaps then make perfect sense to you because you will convert them to the box-think of your new (although not really new, but rather held back) thought process. And viola!

You were convinced because you were looking to be. You wanted to be.

You realize the natural answers aren't "fulfilling". The "true essence" of reality? You betrayed your own thought process with these type of words. You were seeking something more than the natural and wouldn't accept anything less than that which you were seeking. Eventually this would lead to the "supernatural". The true "essence" you attribute to something outside of the existence of things. You embraced the philosophy or religion of a "unified essence God" because it makes you "fulfilled" (feel better) to do so.

Sometimes it's ok to say "We don't know...yet".

My background is Christianity. My background was three years of Hebrew & Greek. I have years of obsession in etymology, ancient history and cultures, and mythology. From the early years of my Christian school to the Academy I attended, to the classes and courses and seminars I attended well afterward, I have an extensive background in this because I was going to be a Christian minister, teacher and apologist. This was why I went to school to become a teacher of Philosophy (Christian).

So, that argument doesn't apply to me. I do understand the book (in etymological and historical contexts), but there are so many different "interpretations" (and where they come from I have no idea) that I am amazed at the people that keep coming for more, but it all comes down to wanting something MORE, wanting to be "fulfilled", doesn't it?

 

i dunno. many people throughout the world have sought communion with their higher beings through the intentional application of agony. agony DOES have a way of focusing your mind, that's for sure. and when these people are enduring hellish agony, that's when they seek and "find" their spirit of choice?

 

Unexplainable:not to be accounted for or explained
You can rationalize anything. More that any explanation besides God would be far fetched- it would require a much greater leap of imagination to explain away what happened in a natural standpoint- maybe aliens controling me, putting thoughts in me, causing me to open books to specific pages that address what I am thinking when I have the urge to pull a book off the shelf of the library who's title has nothing to do with what I am thinking. To arrange specific occurences of a single symbol to appear in many aspects of my life without me seeking it out (and it happens enough that it can't be coincidence- freakishly so). Of course I can come up with some huge conspiracy theory- but that would be stupid. It's not a massive conspiracy by aliens, mankind, or whoever. It is by God, after all, God talks to me , which, of course, you claim is insane.

God does everything.

Exactly. God completes the explanation without making up conspiracy theories.

No. I was convinced because God wanted me to be.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Obviously.

Not outside, more than the simple existence of things.

Yes.

Mine was drugs, death metal, and atheism.

I like etymology, but don't research it. What I learn, I learn. That other stuff is neat, but I don't feel a pull towards knowledge of it.
I was into hacking/phreaking. Computer geek stuff. Video games, partying. That's it.

Pose as an atheist to lure the suckers in.

Sure it does.

Fulfillment is understanding and embracing reality. It does make sense to want to understand that which you feel.

 

God isnt responsible for disaster. Because of our sin of greed and selfishness, we are destroying ourselves and our beautiful earth. GOd didnt DO it, but He does allow it.

*cringe* sorry 'bout that boil, man... *holds butt cheek*

 

I know what "unexplainable" means, but you can't say that something is "unexplainable" because you don't have that vast amount of knowledge. Neither do I. What we can say it is that is "UNEXPLAINED", and unexplained doesn't mean "unexplain-ABLE".

Secondly, using "God" as an explanation is using a foreign concept to explain something we can't explain. It is filling a gap. You have essentially borrowed this idea of "God" and filled the gap, and closed off any other explanation as "rationalizing".

Saying "I don't know how it is done, thus it cannot be explained, thus God did it" is a fallacious argument and holds NO water.

In essence you HAVE created your own "conspiracy theory" where "God" is man behind the curtain. You have accepted this as fact and shut your mind off from any other explanation, much like the Church and the sun revolving around the earth.

You have taken your subjective coincidences and preconceived conditioned thinking to say, "Ah ha! It must be 'God'" (and luckily enough, Biblegod).

All this is PURE OPINION and an admittance that you only take what you want to confirm your belief. That's what fundamentalists do. That's what apologists do.

Where you got that definition is beyond me. Fulfillment is SUBJECTIVE. It is relative to the subject being "fulfilled". Everyone is fulfilled in different ways. It is arrogant to say that your own definition of "fulfillment" is embracing reality, when it is apparent you have closed yourself off to anything other than what you want to believe to "fulfill" your own self. And saying it doesn't make sense to want to UNDERSTAND what you FEEL is against human nature and is frighteningly CULT-THINK mentality.

 

God dose not cause bad things to happen these days.

these days bad things just happen because of sin.

 

Yeah. You're right, you can make up any bullshit explanation you want, even though they would be completely far fetched.

God isn't a foreign concept.

All ideas are created by God, so any idea you have is 'second hand'. You have taken the idea of nature and 'used it' to fill gaps, which I did before I saw evidence of God's existence.

Yeah. Was that my argument? Don't recall saying I don't know how it was done, I do recall saying that any purely natural explanation would be far fetched, although there are 'natural' explanations for many of the events that have happened- it's just that the pure number of these events is evidence for something greater behind the seens.

Actually, I got the idea from God.

Yes, well, unless I am watching a movie, playing a video game or some other way caught up in the moment.

Yeah. Generally our ideas are based upon stuff that has happened to us and stuff we have learned.

Not exactly. I wanted evidence for God's existence, and God provided it. I wouldn't say that I arranged any of the things that happen/ happened.
Anyway, you need evidence before you will believe in God, which your background shows. Without God providing you with evidence of God's existence, you will never believe in God- even with all of the conditioning that you bragged about. Of course, my early conditioning (coming from a scientific atheist background) taught me that you need evidence for something to confirm it's existence. I started out with the need for evidence, and followed it up with the learning that you recieved at the age that I was taught that evidence is needed. Apparently God is showing you stuff ass backwards (from my perspective) and taught you the 'book learning' before God taught you the need for evidence and provided you with evidence.

God fulfills us with different things, creates different tastes in different people.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head though. I wanted knowledge and wisdom, God brought it too me, I feel happy. Wierd ehh? Like when you really want chicken nuggets and you get 'em.

Yeah, you're right as usual, which is why I said "it does" not "it doesn't" in my original statement (you even quoted it in your post).

Your only problem is that God has not provided you with sufficient evidence of God's existence. You have a good 'learning background' already, so when God provides you with sufficient evidence, everything you know should fall into place.

 

God causes sin.

 

So debating with you any further is obviously a lost cause, correct?

 

Just like you did with "God".

If we are speaking in natural terms, and then you introduce "God", yes it is a foreign concept. You are introducing something "foreign" to our evidence at hand. Where is your evidence for this "concept"?

Pure opinion with no corroborating evidence. Nature doesn't "fill gaps" because it is not a "foreign" concept. Plus, we rightly call our ideas "theories" in nature, unlike you and your "God" hogwash.

So, using the natural theories to describe natural events is "far fetched", but invisible, intangible fairyman in the sky is not "far-fetched"? LOL

Prove it.

Prove it. Give me at least something to make a REASONABLE ASSESSMENT.

Pure opinion. Your mind determines this and you have embraced your concept with no room for disagreement, and without any objective evidence, only subjective (which is NOT objective proof).

 

I thought you liked the dynamic interplay of ideas. I find it beautiful.

When I was a kid, my friend who was better at bo fighting liked to get sticks when we skipped school and bo fight. Finally I had to tell him I didn't want to do it anymore- of course, he was like "Come on man, it's fun". Took me a while to convince him that I really didn't like it- he thought I was just in a bad mood because I would do it sometimes. We stopped Bo Fighting and have been friends for about 16 years.

 

actually he made and is sin.Hes everything.He made the very concept of sin.Sin= stuff he himslef dosent like

his personality is perfect and not sinful.

he lets stuff happens and will bring peole who have died back to life when the time is right.

 

Debate to me, is sport, indeed. But sports usually involve a winner and debates are usually discussion which lead to some kind of common ground.

I see neither coming from this debate, so far.

 

I didn't do it. God did.

We are talking about the fundamental nature of reality, which God is. Leave God out and you're left with science fiction.

Everywhere. Of course you know the quote from Matthew 13 "They see but do not perceive", a lot like explaining relativity to a hot blond chick who only thinks about fucking.

Perhaps you can learn something for this?

Nope. God does do things 'naturally' a majority of the time.

Nah. You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said. If something unlikely happens a few times, it could just be a naturally occuring random coincidence. If it happens in reality so often that it could not be a coincidence, then another explanation is required to explain it other than randomly occuring natural coincidence.

"When what happens is an integral part of the reality in which you live" it makes you realise something. When I started the car last night, started to turn around, the lyrics the radio belted out were "and she (lol) turns around again", and yesterday evening, I was thinking about how cool 'master of puppets' was when it came on the radio, got home and I normally put the radio station on 93.7, was thinking about changing it, and God made me think "I'll just see what God puts on this station tomorrow (don't usually listen to it) when I start the car and come over instead of changing the station (my actual thoughts as I turned off the car)" Start the car, song starts playing as I back out in perfect sequence with leaving the house, and it's master of puppets.)

Coincidences like this happen to me constantly. I mean all the fucking time. So much so, that at first it creeped me the fuck out. If it had only happened a couple of time, I coulda written it off. But these things happen to me all the fucking time. All the time. When they start happening to you, you will know it's God arranging them.

I gave you a couple of examples of things that happen to me all the time. External reality which I don't control being in perfect coordination with my interior thoughts (it follows that I do not control them if I control nothing else) is sufficient evidence for God's control over reality.

Lol, I was just thinking about reasonable doubt. Natural explanations to explain away the constant occurences of synchronicity in my life (when there are sooooo sooo many other things that could happen instead of synchronous events) would not be reasonable. God is the only sufficiently logical explanation. I'd have to be a moron to think otherwise after all that God has taught me.

You know the old subjective/ objective argument is a red herring. All of our experiences are subjective, even experiences of what we know is objective reality.

Anyway, I told you that you need to experience God for yourself to understand God, otherwise all of the book smarts you have are useless (in a sense). I do not expect you to accept the wierd ass shit that happens to me as credible hearsay- you need to experience it yourself. Don't worry- you will notice when God makes you think about a seemingly random idea for a bit, and then it comes up a few hours later- it starts happening more and more, until you are like "Holy shit, something is controlling everything".

 

Sometimes a debate takes a little longer to resolve. The important ones take the longest.

I do.

 

You have readily admitted that your entire philosophy is built upon confirmation bias.

You automatically think this foreign concept "did" everything.

Your philosophy's foundations are built on the logical fallacy called "Argumentum Ad Ignorantium".

No matter what we debate, you'll claim "God" did it, yet offer NO proof.

I fail to see how this is going anywhere other than to get us off on the "sport" of the debate, rather than the accomplishment of common ground.

 

Cause he totured his own son so hes gotta torture us too DUH! Maybe if everyone was like, "JEsus christ God, stop being such a fucking bully. all you do is toture people, trick them and make them believe you deserve their praise. leave us the fuck alone" things would change.

I mean, what god thinks hes doing for all of us isnt really all its cracked up to be. Would you rather be nothing, never thinking in the first place, or have to suffer and then be happy? I think id rather be non existant.