God does not exist

Nor I. You say the devotion to it is what we share but the model itself doesn't matter. Doesn't add up. It would have to matter for us to be able to devote ourselves to it.

Devotees may go as they please. The devotion of lovers does not seek its ease :-D

Realized. You don't have to go on realizing it.

lol So you don't know what you're looking for, or why, beyond its arrest.
Observing to observe. As I said, not my thing.

Doesn't make us alien

lol As though I could tell what it is when you use the same word for everything. :-D

 

The devotion is always to our good depending on our model of good .

No I don't but peace wears well on any face.

You were wondering what you looked like, just passing along the reports.

That would be respiration.

Do all these qualifiers make me qualified? I'd like to thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition.

 

It is a good thing we have concluded God does not exist.

 

it's amazing how much thought and time you fellas put into something you don't believe in

 

Thanks Jo. Weight off my mind. If you're cool with god not existing for us, you can be a king. God you'll still have to be on your own time. :-D

 

I place my time into proving to others that God does not exist because it saddens me that they are so ignorant in their beliefs.

 

Waste of time kid. We can only prove it doesn't exist for us. :-D

 

Sad and true, Dejavu.

 

You would scoff at the effort to relieve sadness? You have proven to be in a state of denial.

 

Cheer up, my ignorance satisfies.

 

thedope:

I don't scoff that god doesn't exist for Maelstrom. God doesn't exist for me either. Don't know what you've got against it thedope. What's that about denial? lol

You think the body is a machine. It'll cheer you down to the end for your presumption. lol

 

OF THE AFTERWORLDSMEN


ONCE Zarathustra too cast his deluded fancy beyond mankind, like all afterworldsmen. Then the world seemed to me the work of a suffering and tormented God.
..Then the world seemed to me the dream and fiction of a God; coloured vapour before the eyes of a discontented God.
..Good and evil and joy and sorrow and I and You - I thought them coloured vapour before the creator's eyes. The creator wanted to look away from himself, so he created the world.
..It is intoxicating joy for the sufferer to look away from his suffering and to forget himself. Intoxicating joy and self-forgetting - that is what I once thought the world.
..This world, the eternally imperfect, the eternal and imperfect image of a contradiction - an intoxicating joy to its imperfect creator - that is what I once thought the world.
..Thus I too once cast my deluded fancy beyond mankind, like all afterworldsmen. Beyond mankind in reality?
..Ah, brothers, this God which I created was human work and human madness, like all gods!
..He was human, and only a poor piece of man and Ego: this phantom came to me from my own fire and ashes, that is the truth! It did not come to me from the 'beyond'!
..What happened , my brothers? I, the sufferer, overcame myself, I carried my own ashes to the mountains, I made for myself a brighter flame. And behold! the phantom fled from me!
..Now to me, the convalescent, it would be suffering and torment to believe in such phantoms: it would be suffering to me now and humiliation. Thus I speak to the afterworldsmen.
..It was suffering and impotence - that created all afterworlds; and that brief madness of happiness that only the greatest sufferer experiences.
..Weariness, which wants to reach the ultimate with a single leap, with a death-leap, a poor ignorant weariness, which no longer wants even to want: that created all gods and afterworlds.
..Believe me, my brothers! It was the body that despaired of the body - that touched the ultimate walls with the fingers of its deluded spirit.
..Believe me, my brothers! It was the body that despaired of the earth - that heard the belly of being speak to it.
..And then it wanted to get its head through the ultimate walls - and not its head only - over into the 'other world'.
..But that 'other world', that inhuman, dehumanized world which is a heavenly Nothing, is well hidden from men; and the belly of being does not speak to man, except as man.
..Truly, all being is hard to demonstrate; it is hard to make it speak. Yet, tell me, brothers, is not the most wonderful of all things most clearly demonstrated?
..Yes, this Ego, with its contradiction and confusion, speaks most honestly of its being - this creating, willing, evaluating Ego, which is the measure and value of things.
..And this most honest being, the Ego - it speaks of the body, and it insists upon the body, even when it fables and fabricates and flutters with broken wings.
..Ever more honestly it learns to speak, the Ego: and the more it learns, the more it finds titles and honours for the body and the earth.
..My Ego taught me a new pride, I teach it to men: No longer to bury the head in the sand of heavenly things, but to carry it freely, an earthly head which creates meaning for the earth!
..I teach mankind a new will: to desire this path that men have followed blindly, and to call it good and to no more creep aside from it like the sick and dying!
..It was the sick and dying who despised the body and the earth and invented the things of heaven and the redeeming drops of blood: but even these sweet and dismal poisons they took from the body and the earth!
..They wanted to escape from their misery and the stars were too far for them. Then they sighed: 'Oh if only there were heavenly paths by which to creep into another existence and into happiness!' - then they contrived for themselves their secret ways and their draughts of blood!
..Now they thought themselves transported from their bodies and from this earth, these ingrates. Yet to what do they owe the convulsion and joy of their transport? To their bodies and to this earth.
..Zarathustra is gentle with the sick. Truly, he is not angry at their manner of consolation and ingratitude. May they become convalescents and overcomers and make for themselves a higher body!
..Neither is Zarathustra angry with the convalescent if he glances tenderly at his illusions and creeps at midnight around the grave of his God: but even his tears still speak to me of sickness and a sick body.
..There have always been many sickly people among those who invent fables and long for God: they have a raging hate for the enlightened man and for that youngest of virtues which is called honesty.
..They are always looking back to dark ages: then indeed, illusion and faith were a different question; raving of the reason was likeness to God, and doubt was sin.
..I know these Godlike people all too well: they want to be believed in, and doubt to be sin. I also know all too well what it is they themselves most firmly believe in.
..Truly not in afterworlds and redeeming drops of blood: they believe most firmly in the body, and their own body is for them their thing-in-itself.
..But it is a sickly thing to them: and they would dearly like to get out of their skins. That is why they hearken to preachers of death and themselves preach afterworlds.
..Listen rather, my brothers, to the voice of the healthy body: this is a purer voice and a more honest one.
..Purer and more honest of speech is the healthy body, perfect and square-built: and it speaks of the meaning of the earth.

..Thus spoke Zarathustra.

 

"God doesn't exist for me"

A machine is a complex system structured so as to accomplish a particular goal.
Why do imagine it a disrespect to identify that the body is a machine?
I know the body is a machine. It doesn't work unless you put fuel in it. It wears out, although you can get replacement parts. The body is an energy transducer, a communication device.

How do you feel about cemeteries? Did you know that some mummified human remains are still mummified human remains after thousands of years? I wonder how they conceive their condition? You know what, I bet they don't. Why, because what ever animated those bodies at one time is not related to the remains we see. In the world but not of it.

We are luminous. If you were to look down on the world and turned off every light source except for human consciousness, the world would look a starry night, some stars appearing brighter then others, but everyone the same light.

THUS SPRACH DOOPEN

 

Thank you for sharing your holy scripture with us.

I find it a flat footed soliloquy, albeit down to earth.

 

But it doesn't. God doesn't exist for us, but because of us. If you think it does, then it is your pretence to hold it beyond conception. No-one elses.

Thedoopen:

:-D

The same light?! The same?! To me? LOL lol lol lol ...

 

But, but, all I said was you are in denial.

 

OF THE DESPISERS OF THE BODY

I WISH to speak to the despisers of the body. Let them not
learn differently nor teach differently, but only bid farewell to their own bodies - and so become dumb.
..'I am body and soul' - so speaks the child. And why should one not speak like children?
..But the awakened, the enlightened man says: I am body entirely, and nothing beside; and soul is only a word for something in the body.
..The body is a great intelligence, a multiplicity with one sense, a war and a peace, a herd and a herdsman.
..Your little intelligence, my brother, which you call 'spirit', is also an instrument of yor body, a little instrument and toy of your great intelligence, which does not say 'I' but performs 'I'.
..What the sense feels, what the spirit perceives, is never an end in itself. But sense and spirit would like to persuade you that they are the end of all things: they are as vain as that.
..Sense and spirit are instruments and toys: behind them still lies the Self. The Self seeks with the eyes of the sense, it listens too with the ears of the spirit.
..The Self is always listening and seeking: it compares, subdues, conquers, destroys. It rules and is also the Ego's ruler.
..Behind your thoughts and feelings, my brother, stands a mighty commander, an unknown sage - he is called Self. He lives in your body, he is your body.
..There is more reason in your body than in your best wisdom. And who knows for what purpose your body requires precisely your best wisdom?
..Your Self laughs at your Ego and its proud leapings. 'What are these leapings and flights of thought to me?' it says to itself. 'A by-way to my goal. I am the Ego's leading-string and I prompt its conceptions.'
..The Self says to the Ego: 'Feel pain!' Thereupon it suffers and gives thought how to end its suffering - and it is meant to think for just that purpose.
..The Self says to the Ego: 'Feel joy!' Thereupon it rejoices and gives thought how it may often rejoice - and it is meant to think for just that purpose.
..I want to say a word to the despisers of the body. It is their esteem that produces this disesteem. What is it that created esteem and disesteem and value and will?
..The creative Self created for itself esteem and disesteem, it created for itself joy and sorrow. The creative body created spirit for itself, as a hand of its will.
..Even in your folly and contempt, you despisers of the body, you serve your Self. I tell you: your Self itself wants to die and turn away from life.
..Your Self can no longer perform that act which it most desires to perform: to create beyond itself. That is what it most wishes to do, that is its whole ardour.
..But now it has grown too late for that: so your Self wants to perish, you despisers of the body.
..Your Self wants to perish, and that is why you have become despisers of the body! For no longer are you able to create beyond yourselves.
..And therefore you are now angry with life and with the earth. An unconscious envy lies in the sidelong glance of your contempt.
..I do not go your way, you despisers of the body! You are not bridges to the Superman!

..Thus spoke Zarathustra.

 

The light of thousands of sons. The light we all see by.

 

Certainly if the floo shits but it ain't me babe.

I do not give the body magical properties that it does not possess. I do not share your belief in magic. I behold the miraculous.

 

Okay, I probably jumped to relative conclusions without paying attention to Dejavu throughout this process. Sorry, thedope, but you're the dupe in this thread.