Green Spirituality - a rant

First, I don't think people will find a harmonious society BEFORE the spiritual revolution. For real change, the inner revolution must come first; otherwise we're just rearranging the details of the world, but not our relationship to them. Second, I doubt that anyone would go for "a radical change of most of our patters of living" voluntarily and without changing their world view. We'll either be forced to change (global war, or Peak Oil, or something else), or we won't change...that is, unless we can change our consciousness. Everyone views the world as being seperate, everyone's isolated. This is the problem. Change our consciousness, and we'll be seeing, truly seeing, the world and what's become of it. Then we'll have the positivity (the energy, the vision, and the will) needed for change. Besides, I imagine life would be simpler without the obcession with money and material things, so change would follow almost immediately. But I guess I'm just speculating now.

I mean, communism looks great on paper, but in practice, with the same old human outlook on the world, it failed almost immediately due to greed and power lust. I'm all for the green movement, as you know, and hey, I'm no enlightened being (yet, haha), so I'm not saying we shouldn't start now. I'm just saying it will all turn to dust unless the inner change occurs.

 

Yes I agree - that's why I said it's 'chicken and egg' type thing. On one hand, as you say, meaningful change in social structures and so on will only come as a result of a change in consciousness. But the trouble is, the prevailing dominant culture creates conditions where it's difficult for people to find a new consciousness.
There is mind control and brainwashing via the media, and our old friend, religion for example. The established religions are too conservative - they are more intent on preserving the status quo than fostering real spiritual awakening in people.

 

^all very true. Only thing I have to add is that though it seems untrue, one can find peace in any environment, under any conditions. At least, that should be true. So I think this "oh I can't raise my consciousness because the world is too negetive and distracting" is just an excuse for laziness...one I'm often guilty of myself, I'll admit.

 

Which is: How do your actions effect God?

 

I think some kinds of environments foster the kind of opening or raising of consciousness experience. It's easier to get tuned in in nice and harmonious surroundings - more difficult perhaps in a post indutrial wasteland. But I agree even in the worst situations there is a spark of something - and it doesn't matter too much where you are on one level.
Also, just being in places of natural beauty and tranquility itself can leave you feeling filled with peace, and a sense of the magic of it all....that can be hard to find in urban environments. Even silence is almost impossible to truly experience in towns. There is always some traffic noise - something there. Living in such conditions, we never hear the deep silence of the night even.

 

A Short item by Buckminster Fuller explaining what he meant by 'big picture thinking' can be found at

http://www.bfi.org/bigpic.htm

 

Bucky's first comment:

reveals a faked pompous lack of awareness. Discipline is an external force, even if it has a permanent effect upon us.

The rest of his statement is pretty mind expanding. The first line... ugghh. Gotta get a childish statement at the begining, don't you bucky!

 

I don't see why you object to that. I think he means that a certain mental discipline is needed - 'directed thinking, or directed awareness' perhaps.

And also, a certain humility. To accept the idea of seeing a bigger or more accurate picture, we first have to accept that the picture we now see is inadequate, more or less limited.
What Bucky seems to be suggesting is a deliberate attempt to 'think big' - to direct our attention to the scale of things as they actually are.

Some years ago I came across an exercise in a book which was quite interesting. It is very simple. Just think of yourself on the surface of the earth, in your present location, and try to picture to yourself the actual size of the earth. Try to get a real feeling of the scale. It is not at all easy to do.

One reason for that is probably that our whole consciousness and our way of looking at things has evolved here in line with our planetary survival needs during long previous epochs. During what Fuller calls our period of 'permitted ignorance' from which he, and many others working from different angles claim we are now beginning to emerge.
We tend to see things on a limited scale - our own little world and surrounding reality. To move beyond that may require some mental discipline, as it is like a move away from a 'default' setting, if I can put it like that.

 

Perhaps it's my faked pompous lack of awareness. It's not like discipline is not part of me.

Definitely. I like it.

My God yes. If you take stuff too seriously, the pomposity of the situation gets extravagantly over-exaggerated with false gravitas.

Good mental exercise to see, what the hell? The dog was just chewing on my shoe with my foot in it! Anyway, I agree.

It's that whole relativity angle. Puts a real spin on things. Compare the earth to a human body... or compare the earth to the milky way.

Catholics call it original sin. Some terminology has such a seemingly negative connotation.

Well, people learn what they feel first, and then they get stretched out a little. Break the shell of the ego and become a maggot.

 

Interesting idea K. However, I think the whole catholic edifice represents just more of the same ignorance. It belongs to a previous phase of mankind's development. None of the Catholic teachings are really much use to-day. For one thing, as I said in my original post, they are basically anti-world and anti-nature. They see this world as something put there simply for our convenience, and they put Man as the centre of creation around which everything revolves.

The pope for instance is very quick to speak out on so called moral issues like gays or women priests etc, but never a word about the evils of big business, or the damage we are doing to our environment. That's because they are stuck in the past. They don't even see the real issues.

 

Really? Seems like there is a joke there....

They present a false front about the sexual issues and know that God takes care of everything.

The real issue is our relationship with God. Priests seem to be focused upon this, even if there are public misconceptions about 'thier' intent.

Anyway, sometimes jokes lose 'their' funny to serious interpretation.

 

If the human race is wiped out in an environmental disaster, then there won't be anyone to have a relationship with God. Or to argue the rights and wrongs of contraception etc.
Our relationship with God is only one side of things. We also have relations to other people, other forms of life, and the universe in general. It seems to me that modern man guided by the church has failed completely to find his right place in the natural order of things. It is from western civilization, supposedly christian, that the problem has originated.
Just belief is not enough. Just subscribing to a set of dogmas is not enough. A new consciousness is needed. And although I have looked, I see very little sign of anything remotely like that coming from Rome. Only the same old formulas.
They despise the body. They despise sex. I strongly suspect that they mainly despise women. And there is a strong tradition of seeing nature as something corrupt, fallen, ruled by devils even. I believe the idea is that when Adam fell, all nature fell along with him.
Perhaps the church could change - but that isn't likely in the near future.

 

Which is why God doesn't wipe out the whole human race (which is obviously the only race God has ever created) with an environmental disaster.

Yeah, but that stuff is just God behaving in certain ways (like me or you). Soooooo.... ummmm. God want's kids to perceive God (me) so God makes em. You might not know it, but everything you 'do' (feel) is done by God.

Interestingly enough, the church was not designed to help man find his correct place in the "natural order of things". It is a signpost on the way to knowing God. The natural order exists to entertain children- God's children.

No, it is from God that the problem has originated. A little rattling of the sword to get wayward childrens attention.

No, the old conciousness must continue development, but in a new direction. There is nothing wrong with it- it just needs humility to perceive the truth. Humility comes with age and infirmity. Those who learn humility at an early age are truly blessed (although it takes great spiritual pain to teach it), for they can begin to enjoy the true pleasures of God's presence and still enjoy the entertainment of the 'natural world' (fiction) that God has created.

That's because you look at the world with pride, instead of humility. See everything as coming from God and you will learn the truth.

You fail to comprehend the truth of the matter. As long as you look to man to guide your behaviour, you will not feel good about how God behaves in 'your body'. Understanding that God controls all will cause you to see clearly.

Not at all. Adam's understanding was inadequate to truly perceive God's love. Adam's "fall" was simply his pride being broken by God, which is necessary to percieve God's love.

You should change, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

It's not god, but ourselves who are causing the problem. As I've said before, us, acting on our own volition.

What we do is done by us, not god. We are not automata. Interestingly enough, even the church teaches that we have free will.

The church is incapable of teaching man his right place in the natural order, because they don't have any notion of what that might be. They are more interested in some supposed afterlife.

To say that the natural order exists to 'entertain god's children' is indeed a sweeping assertion. And really given the nature of reality absurd. It's not exactly very entertaining for children born into starvation in africa for example - and don't please come on with some line about it being god's way to turn them to him - because once again, such a god would be a monster.

If it were from god, which it's not, it would be a pretty dismal way of getting attention.

I think you misunderstand K. I have no intention of changing my view or perception of reality to suit some out dated concept of god up there in his little heaven, closely controlling his little universe. All that is simply illusion. It may bring comfort to some, but it is illusion nonetheless.

To look at the world with true humility is to see the greatness of it, the greatness of nature, and the spirit which is in everything, and yet beyond everything. And the greatness of the human spirit too. False humility wants to see us as weak and helpless, dependent on some kind of skygod. It would like to see us all as infirm.
But the spirit is there -
That should be our guide. The church, and other established religions have no monopoly on the spirit, whatever they like to claim to keep up their position. Often, they have no real connection to the spirit, and their doctrines are just words. They are incapable of guiding mankind through the present crisis.
Indeed, it is partly the failure of religion which has led to the present pass.

 

There is clearly a fundamental difference of opinion, one believing in free will, the other, not. you guys need to agree to disagree, cuz this is goin' nowhere.

 

So says the complex machine to it's maker.

Interestingly enough, God has a sense of humor. Many 'churches' 'teach' many things which are not true.

Ha. Don't be stupid, I am interested in this life. If there wasn't a benefit to knowing God in this life, God wouldn't teach us. You can feel and perceive God now. If you couldn't do this, there would be absolutely no way you could know God in this life. Why wait for an afterlife when you can have God now?

Yes, quite sweeping.

The same can be said about your claim. God is reality, and the natural order is quite beautiful and entertaining.

Ohh yes. All of the disease, war, death and destruction in the world. Not like people don't thrive on adversity and enjoy it in some dark sense. I know I do.

Really? Perhaps if God did not have to hide right in front of you because of your cowardice, God would not have to paint a bleak picture that allows you to believe that God is not controlling every single aspect of reality at once. You're the one that needs death and destruction to feel free. God controls everything, down to your last little sensation and thought, and knows a 'perfect world' would scare the shit out of you because of your fear of God.

Ohh, I bring you a far different message then that. Something far more sinister to those who prefer the darkness of natural law. The truth. God controls everything. There is nothing that God does not exercise absolute control over. Of course, souls need a certain amount of understanding and experience before they are ready to see this fact. Every time I show them for the first time, they are scared to the point of madness. Death and destruction exist to provide a baby soul with the feeling of freedom until it is old enough to understand that it does not need freedom to be loved.

False humility sees us as separate from God. True humility sees all of our actions as the actions of the divine, and this covers both sides of the aisle- dark and the light. Some guy once said "If your eye be dark, it be all darkness, and if it is light that you have, even your darkness is light." Your eye is dark.

Not at all. There has been no failure except in the eyes of those who do not understand.

 

Beautiful picture.

Anyway, things are always moving and I enjoy the interplay between the light and the dark. No need to stop, ever.

 

Agreed. It is pointless.
And really, I've had enough of disputing with K over this.

 

An interesting article


http://www.iol.ie/~mazzoldi/toolsforchange/zine/imb96/spirit.htm


I broadly agree with this.

 

Lol... the continued interplay between light and dark. BBB, you are beautiful.. hahaha