Greta Thunberg

What are you arguing then? When I say I'm against humans putting their trash and pollution in space and you argue against that and point out it wouldn't matter because there's no life, and I even specify that I'm not against mining for resources (although I think I actually am, I think I just want humans to leave space alone, I think we should just all die off one day instead) and you come back and say again that trash and pollution wouldnt make a difference because everything is dead...
It does seem like that's what you're advocating. Or else you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Not everything I write has to do with the people on Hip Forums, believe it or not.

 

It was a clearly a reaction to my argument. As i was the one who brought up what you are reacting to. But it seems you misread what i was arguing. I specifically specified not if there's intelligent or even only microscopic life.

 

What's the point in that? It seems very atheist. Which many people are, and I used to be, and I also used to think we should die off. But connected to what we were talking about regarding being God, I look around at the best of us, and the best aspects of humanity, and how you and YFM were saying in the hope for future thread that kids were kinder and less bullying (which I also observe), and I think well THIS is the point.. To remember who we are and become a more evolved being. We need time and resources, and if we treat those with love and respect, I don't see it as bad. It might be the reason they are there. Otherwise what is it? A load of minerals etc falling around in space.. What is it for? If we leave it alone, how is that better?

I don't want us to keep existing the way we are and as I've said twice, don't mean we should treat the solar system as a thing to exhaust, but I do believe keeping ourselves alive has meaning and purpose. Even if you don't believe there is a spiritual aspect to us, it seems a shame to be so down on the species. I understand it and have felt it, but it's letting the darkness /the nothing/the devil win to give up.

 

Exploiting lifeless isolated planets, moons and asteroids through mining. I would be for moving heavy polluting industry to such planets too if it ever gets a viable option (one of the reasons it isn't for a long time is because of the costs of transportation). You apparently don't get that there's nothing to ruin or hurt on those planets/moons im considering.

Here's what i was responding to:

when i said this:

 

I agree with your point, but this line struck me as curious :-D Wouldn't atheists typically be all for space exploration and exploitation? The conviction to leave space or other planets (2 slightly diff things imo) alone out of some principle is something i sooner associate with religious folks..!

 

Ha, yeah true.
More the concept that it doesn't matter if we let ourselves die out.

 

I reckon y'all living in the dream land about humans and space exploration. I don't even think humans will ever really even get that far we'll use up all earth's resources before they ever get a chance to work out how to do this. By the time we need to mine another world for its resources, we won't even have the resources to accomplish the task. That's my guesstimate.

Also, money don't grow on trees. Building these massive star trek space craft or whatever is getting fantasised I doubt is even a realistic proposition where we are at the moment anyway. NASA and China and Russia gonna have to stack up on all those recycling receipts.

 

That's a real possibility too. It goes terribly slow and costs a lot of research and money. Hence why we think we should start investing in it now.

 

On a lighter note, about the space garbage, had anyone bought up the Futurama episode where they sent all the world's garbage into space and it came back to hit earth and then humans made lots more garbage and then flew that into space and knocked the other garbage off course?

 

Could be from a religious death cult! We will all be in a better place afterwards! But ok, i get where you were coming from now

 

Oh yeah I remember that one

 

We need some sorta smelloscope.

 

This space exploitation or moving industry and/or garbage to some celestial body discussion deserves its own thread anyway. I think there already was one once!

 

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I see you're going to disregard everything I said about unintended consequences in order to take a cheap shot at me. I don't "get" it? Or maybe you dont get that pumping our noxious pollution into space could have consequences on earth and on other planets where there is life. Not everything in space is dead, you have no way of knowing that either. You know as far as humans are aware, and humans are only aware of a pretty limited area of space thus far.

And @Driftrue this is exactly what I mean, it's fine if you think I'm down on the human race, I think I'm just being a realist. At this point humans haven't evolved enough to do this correctly or respectfully. *You* have but the people who would actually be funding any sort of space exploration will probably just want to do it to build factories (coughasmocough) or fight wars or some other stupid reason. And mentally humans evolve slower than technologically. For all our technology we still use a lot of it to just fight wars dont we?
And the thing about how the minerals are just floating out in space and are meaningless without human interaction, I honestly hate that mindset. Things have meaning without being touched by humans. Humans assigned meaning to diamonds and look what happened, the diamond trade is terrible. I think it's okay for humans to just leave things alone sometimes.
Not gonna touch on the spiritual stuff. I am an atheist and that's okay.

Anyways basically the point I'm trying to make is I think humans need to fix their problems here on earth first, I didnt mean we should just die, I meant if we cant fix the planet we've destroyed we deserve to die. If we can fix it and evolve as a species then let's talk about colonizing space, but not before. Because if we don't it will end up just being space wars and factories.

And here's another unintended consequence, if we develop the technology to travel great lengths and find other species living on other planets we'll just bring disease and bacteria to them. And then we wont be an advanced, evolved species. We'll just be 1500s Europeans bringing their diseases to America all over again.

If humans explore space I want them to do it as a species who can give some forethought to the consequences of their existence and as a species who doesnt think of themselves as the center of the universe, that's all.

Anyways I'm not a total cynic, I have full faith humans can fix the mess they've created on earth and think we should focus on that

 

This is all hypothetical anyways
Except despatching our trash to space, let's not do that

 

I did qualify it ...

Also different gender expectations.

 

I think you're conflating Atheism with Nihilism driftrue. Asmo is spot on, the religious mentality (Judeo-Christian at least) is that a God gave humans rule over the Earth and they probably moreso than atheists are against space exploration (also the notion of Climate Change). And after all, the most prominent atheist of the 21st century is an evolutionary biologist lol

 

I just dont think spirituality had anything to do with it one way or the other

 

Fair enough. I didn't mean not wanting to use space was atheistic.. Or anything to do with space..
I just meant the concept that there was no objective purpose to the continuation of mankind. Not Nihilism, because a person could hold that view (no purpose) and still think there was meaning and purpose, subjectivly, within their own lifetime.

If you can find it, I recommend the documentary I mentioned, 21st century race for space, with Brian Cox. I actually think after watching it that the individuals wanting to invest their private billions in space exploration ARE "me".

The ones who want war and factories don't have the imagination to be the first in space.