Halloween? How do you feel about it?

Satan is a fairy tale told by Christians to scare people into submission and behaving themselves. Satan isn't real, heaven and hell are what you make it and how you live yourself, and God is everything and nothing, God is love, energy, hate, spirit, the universe, etc.

 

NeoDude : For the record: Satan like the christian God does not exists as far as I am concerned so yes I agree that it would be quite obviously pointless to worship Satan in particular or from my perspective the christian God either. Some people do, so you may go along and ask them.

 

I cannot see the point of the whole crucifixion story in the first place. So much detestable guilt, sin, and violence for what end to redeem me and others for sins that we, I did not commit and had no part in. In any case would it not have been more economical to just slaughter a goat, or if the sky daddy cared about us so much he would have done what he wanted to do without all the drama. Maybe it is about time we flushed this one down the Loo so to speak.

 

If you accept Rene Girard's idea of violence, sacred, religiona nd scapegoats then the crucifixion makes perfect sens both theologically and sociologically. His theory is that when some external or internal force threatens the community, it must be eradicated. It began as human sacrfices (you literally eradicated the person causing strife, or thought to have caused strife. for example, if a woman marries a man from another group and he enters the woman's society and crops start failing, kill him and the crops should be better again). He then argues that this eventually had to be altered, so an innocent victim (a goat or other animal) has the "sins" of the person or persons placed on it and then it was sacrificed in the people's place. The reason, he then argues, that Christ's sacrifice was utterly redeemiong is that he willingly took upon the sins of other people he is the perfect and last sacrifice.

Mimetic violence sums up the whole theory. Violence to eradicate violence. Good stuff. Not surprisingly Girard was a Roman Catholic whilst also being a pretty good scholar or religion hence the reference to Christ stopping the nessecary violence.

 

Yes it may have made sense in iron age Palestine, but not today.

 

By your own definition, that is why it is foolish to consider yourself greater than God. Who is saying this "I am greater than God" nonsense? It's pure ego, in it's worst form.

 

Well then let me extend the theory of violence to restore order. America is attacked by terrorists -> America is "hurt" and "suffering" -> America attacks terrorist and wins -> America feels better.

Yes this is a hypothetical with blurry definitions, but the logic behind it makes perfect sense. If we live in a stable environment and something disrupts that environment, then we must take violence against said something to restore order. The ancients used goats as a victim of violence so they didn't go around with capital punishment all the time.

And also the presuppositions of the Christian theology must be present to have the crucifixion make perfect sense (sometimes with the presuppositions it still doesn't make perfect sense. I was merely using one example). If you believe that life and death are cyclical, then of course it won't make sense. Or if you believe in a linear life that ends at death than it also doesn't make sense theologically. It can be appreciated maybe as a sign of love (he at least thought he was doing good) or you could take a Dawkinsesque or Harrisinian approach and abhor Jesus for his religious fanaticism...

I guess this line of argument to lends itself to criticism. It is like proving the Bible with the Bible (Jesus is God because it says so and the prophecies he fulfilled et cetera). But I think that within the theological framework of a personal God who is transcendant yet immanent then it can make sense.

 

I am not even sure what to say this.
First, who's stopping you? If you believe that God is the creator of the earth and all the things in it. Then it matters. If you don't, then don't even talk about it.

 

Depends on how you define "God". If you define "God" as the Christians do, as an old man in the clouds who watches everything we do and punishes us if we're naughty, then yeah, the Christian God is very hateful and close minded. Kill the gays, burn the witches, right? "God" is love, energy, life, death, etc. and largely indifferent to us humans and our petty schemes...

 

agreed. It doesn't make any sense... how can you predict sins in the future, and what does crucifying a schitzo solve? Sin doesn't exist.

 

it doesn't make any sense. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. how the heck does crucifying a crazy person magically take away the "sins" of the future??? like a lot of the bible, doesn't make any sense... a lot of scare tactics used to keep people in line, to force their morals on others.

 

Did I say anything about all of that?
God is not a name, it is a title. My God's name is not God. There are many Gods.

 

Hi yep, and

"Well then let me extend the theory of violence to restore order. America is attacked by terrorists -> America is "hurt" and "suffering" -> America attacks terrorist and wins -> America feels better"

Apart of all this may involve the persistence of many religious ideas in both islamic and modern secular ideologies such as Neo Conservatism. There is the terrorism of Islamic fanaticism on the one side and Bush's counter call for a crusade against these evil doers on the other. The former I assume wants to establish an Islamic kalphite across the Islamic world and other Neo Conservative vision to remake the world in Americas image. They both want to perfect an imperfect world, not just restore balance or some pre existing harmony.

Neither make much sense to me as the outcomes have and continue to be dreadful. I think that Voilence should no longer be seen a legitimatre means of large scale social engineering. I think that this is important if this specise is to have much of a futur.

I assume maybe incorrectly that Christianity seems to start from the supposition that we are all more or less damned if we do not accept and commune so to speak with Jesus. This seems to be suggested in the new testemsnt books. Not only that, but nearly all social strata are moched and attacked in some way throughout the Gospels. Of cause Jesus then promises to lead his follows to the sun lit unplends with the aid of the voilent mechanism of the crucifition. It all stricks me as rather fanatical.

I am rambling. You probably deserve a better responses to your posts from me. In any case which ever way you look at it man seems to be a very violent specise indeed.

 

The crucifixion was the ultimate sacrafice so that we wouldnt have to go slaughter a goat. Economical? Not so much. Back in those days when your life depended on how many goats, sheep, whatever, you had, not so economical. That's why it's called a sacrafice.( "the surrender or destruction of something prized or desireable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim") And, according to the Bible, we are all born into sin. We inheretid the Original Sin. All mankind was cursed for it.....and every religion on the face of this planet practices some kind of sacrafice

 

It's called faith...the nature of faith itself doesnt make sense

 

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for.
Jesus perfect life was a Ransom to buy back the life that the first man lost due to sin.

 

420UFO

So what if someone wants to consider themselves greater than "God"? so what if someone wants to eat the sacred fruit from the tree of knowledge? We have every right. screw anyone who says otherwise. I support freedom to explore what I want.[/quote]

I will second that

dollydagger

"And, according to the Bible, we are all born into sin. We inheretid the Original Sin. All mankind was cursed for it".

No mankind was born to be curiouse and inquiring for good reason. Its not a sin

 

note three important words in my statement : " According to the Bible..."

and the sin is NOT referring to being curious and inquring....free will is not our sin...

 

I am referring to the apple from the tree of knowledge. The tree that was mentioned in the bible in genisis.

 

Yes. According to the Bible we were given free will. Adam and Eve chose, out of their own free will, to eat the apple. Free will is such: say you are on a mountain, and you hear someone crying for help. Do you help that person, knowing you are putting yourself at risk, or do you go on about your buisness? We know that the right thing to do is to help. It is our own free will that gives us the choice between the right thing and the wrong thing. And as my philosophy professor says, free will sometimes doesnt seem to be a blessing after all.....