hare krishna

jesus was a monkey: I agree with everything you believe in, it's all good and right. You're a bright person. I liked especially the phrase, if you have belief, youre not afraid to be misled. I argument with this when I try to make people chant the Hare Krishna mantra. I say if you're god, if you're free, if you're really inteligent, how can u be afraid to try singing the mahamantra?

 

Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): Because then that is an unequivocal statement.
Prabhupada: No. This is, that you can, that anyone who is keeping hairs and not following the rules and regulations, they are rejected from second initiation.
Devotee (2): What if they are keeping hair but they are following the rules and regulations.
Prabhupada: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaisnava.
Devotee (2): To get second initiation.
Devotee (1): Does that mean shaved head?
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.
Devotee (2): Why is that?
Prabhupada: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."
Devotee (2): Then that is...
Prabhupada: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.
Devotee (2): We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupada. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.
Prabhupada: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.
Devotee (1): Then what do you do with the rest of the world, except for the few people who...
rabhupada: So what I can do I am doing. Therefore you have no right to ask me. What is possible by me I am doing. And those who are able to follow, they are following. That's all.
Devotee (2): But they cannot engage anyone else. How can you reach the intelligent class?
Prabhupada: So that is their business. That is not your business.
Devotee (2): We are trying to be disciples, so we considered it our business because we are sincerely trying.
Prabhupada: So why you are bothering me? You do your business.
Devotee (2): Because from you only...
Prabhupada: I do not accept you because you are keeping hairs.
Devotee (2): I did not know that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): You never told me that in Hawaii.
Prabhupada: Now I say, I'll repeat that anyone who is keeping long hairs, he is no more my disciple.
Devotee (2): All right.
Prabhupada: This is the first condition.
Devotee (1): Does that apply also for householder dharma, or is that simply for brahmacari dharma? Even you... I have pictures of you on the Bhagavatam when you did not have shaved head, with a mustache when you were doing your business as a householder. So does that apply to householders, or only to brahmacaris, that a householder must also keep a shaved head or is that...?
Prabhupada: At that time I was not initiated. You were seeing my picture, mustaches, at that time I was not initiated. Since I became initiated, I have shaven.
Devotee (1): Well, in India where one can do business...
Prabhupada: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
Devotee (2): Can I ask one more question, Prabhupada? What I would like to understand is why it is wrong to ask why? If I can just understand this, why it is wrong for us to ask you in a submissive way. We were humbly asking you these "whys," not because we are trying to be intimidating or we were trying to rebel, but because we have sincerely tried to understand as your disciples.
Prabhupada: So you better ask my so many other disciples?
Devotee (1): They don't have any answers.
Prabhupada: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.
Devotee (2): We are not so many.
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which we have talked over with Revatinandana Swami and Jayatirtha. A great many...
Prabhupada: If my disciples, advanced students, cannot answer, then I am sorry. I cannot answer. I cannot answer.
Devotee (2): That we did not know. That we did not know.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you know it. I have appointed so many GBCs because to help me. It is not possible to see everyone, individual. This is not...
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which they themselves are posing to you.
Revatinandana: I have never met any other people who asked questions on the level that they are asking questions. I cannot answer many of their questions. I have studied all your books.
Prabhupada: I cannot. If you cannot, I cannot also. Because you have been taught by me, if you cannot, then it is...
Devotee (2): We have also been taught.
Revatinandana: I have read your books, and I have heard you lecture. And so many things they are asking, I am, have no capacity to answer them. But you must have the capacity because you know Krsna. Therefore they want to ask you personally.
Devotee (1): So that is the...
Prabhupada: So far I am not so able to answer. I admit my fault.
Devotee (1): Oh, so then that is...
Prabhupada: I cannot answer.
Devotee (1): I understand. Okay? But they are saying, the general conception of you is that because you know Krsna...
Prabhupada: You can... You...
Devotee (1): (interrupting) Excuse me. Because you know Krsna, therefore you know everything about the material world and can answer all questions.
Prabhupada: So whatever I know I have explained in my books. Beyond that I have no knowledge.
Devotee (2): If that is the case, Srila Prabhupada, that does not diminish our respect for you in the least because we have always held...
Prabhupada: So what can I do? I say that whatever I have got experience, I am explaining in my books. I have explained. So it is not possible for me to answer every individual person. It is not possible.
Devotee (2): We respect that. We understand. It is just that because they are saying these things...
Prabhupada: I have got my advanced students. They can answer. If they are unable, answer, if you do not find answer from my books, then it is hopeless.
Devotee (1): Ah! But your advanced students are saying if they give an answer that because they have been appointed by you, therefore their answer is perfectly correct, because, absolutely correct on all things in the relative world because, they have been appointed by you, and because you know...
Prabhupada: You may... That's all right. If you don't believe them, you can finish business.
Devotee (2): But are they correct? That's what we want to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are correct.
Devotee (2): That everything they say is the absolute truth?
Prabhupada: So what can I say? But I have no time to meet everyone.
Devotee (2): Is that correct, Srila Prabhupada? I want to know very clearly that every word that anyone whom you have appointed says is completely correct on all things?
Prabhupada: Yes. If they are authorized, it is correct.
Devotee (2): If they are authorized by you to be temple president...
Prabhupada: There is no reply.
Devotee (2): Then when (name witheld) said to me that he wanted to have homosexual affair with me, I should have said, "Okay. Whatever you say." Is that correct?
Prabhupada: So how to answer these questions?
Devotee (2): That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyasa. He is sannyasa and he said to me, "I want to have sex with you." Does that mean that Krsna was saying I should have sex with him?
Jayatirtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.
Devotee (2): I'm asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what he said. He didn't say that. He said absolutely, and this is...
Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.
Devotee (2): I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, "Oh, at this point he is wrong," then that is what we are talking about, Srila Prabhupada. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.
Prabhupada: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?
Satsvarupa: He is across the street.
Prabhupada: Has he said like that?
Devotee (2): Yes. I have witnesses.
Upendra: But he's admitted his error.
Devotee (2): That's beside the point.
Revatinandana: That's all right. But that's not the point here.
Upendra: The point is that Prabhupada, that if you come before Prabhupada for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn't matter what other people are thinking...
Devotee (2): That's not the...
Devotee (1): That's not the crux of the matter at all.

 

Revatinandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).
Devotee (1): No. We did not come for that at all.
Revatinandana: That wasn't the reason. The point is that anyone, (name witheld) or anybody else, he may be a sannyasi, but if he's doing all kinds of nonsense, how can we say that he has absolute authority? Because he was in charge of the place, etc., and he is also in an authoritative position, yet he breaks the principles.
Devotee (2): His personal servant, when he came... His name is (name witheld). (He) instigated a homosexual affair with him. This boy came to surrender to Krsna and surrendered to (him). But (he) told him to do that.
Upendra: But Prabhupada...
Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyasa. So if you say, Prabhupada, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.
Prabhupada: They say like that?
Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.
Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: No, they don't. Srila Prabhupada has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.
Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarupa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.
Satsvarupa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...
Devotee (2): In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sadhanacara.
Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sadhanacara. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupada: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Devotee (1): But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in the adminis... (end)


© 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust

 

besure, grow that mop

 

Chief: Could you give me a link on the source of that article, please?

Check this out:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/036.html

 

Guru with hair - Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja!

 

http://www.krishna.com/ it has to be downloaded as a pdf file

 

what points would you like to discuss here

Arjuna fighting his guru in battle was not rejecting his guru but the perfection of the dharma his guru had taught him

as per s.p. encouraging the short hairs, imo, he was trying to encourage the cohesion of the monastic institution he had founded

as per his not having answers to all the devotess questions, i think this to be an act of both humility and not wanting his disciples to ask him of every little issue but to go to his managers so he could devote his time to the important work of translating

and too, it seems to be his Divine Grace's mood that he was prepped in advance that these two devotees were rascals and trouble makers but getting into the talk, he finds out that this is not entirely the case as he seems to have been misled by his senior disciples

 

another devotee with long hairs

 

Guru with hair - Jailmate

 

I agree with what you say Chief Cowpie - I think Prabhupada was trying to encourage devotees to keep to the 'monastic' standard. One other point is that some years ago I was told by an ISKCON devotee that the shaven head is only for celibate students, bhramarcharis, and those in the renounced order, sanyasis. It isn't expected of the householder devotee.

It is a pity that Srila Prabhupada didn't look more closely into the alleged misconduct by senior devotees referred to in the interview - perhaps much subsequent trouble could have been avioded!

 

'We gonna chase those crazy baldheads out of town'

Bob Marley.

 

"Guru with long hair(dreadz)", Jailmate

 

Chief: Where's the article? gosh, it's too hard to find it.
Jailmate: Cool, yoú're getting close, the last trick of illusion is to consider oneself to be God.

 

Remember reading that Krishna came in the form of Buddha...I think this defenetely proves this:

The First Noble Truth:
Life is suffering i.e., life includes pain, getting old, disease, and ultimately death. We also endure psychological suffering like loneliness frustration, fear, embarrassment, disappointment and anger. This is an irrefutable fact that cannot be denied. It is realistic rather than pessimistic because pessimism is expecting things to be bad. lnstead, Buddhism explains how suffering can be avoided and how we can be truly happy.
The Second Noble Truth:>
Suffering is caused by craving and aversion. We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectation, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want,etc. In other words, getting what you want does not guarantee happiness. Rather than constantly struggling to get what you want, try to modify your wanting. Wanting deprives us of contentment and happiness. A lifetime of wanting and craving and especially the craving to continue to exist, creates a powerful energy which causes the individual to be born. So craving leads to physical suffering because it causes us to be reborn.
The Third Noble Truth:
Suffering can be overcome and happiness can be attained; true happiness and contentment are possible. lf we give up useless craving and learn to live each day at a time (not dwelling in the past or the imagined future) then we can become happy and free. We then have more time and energy to help others. This is Nirvana.
The Fourth Noble Truth: The 8 Fold Path:
The Noble 8-fold Path is being moral (through what we say, do and our livelihood), focussing the mind on being fully aware of our thoughts and actions, and developing wisdom by understanding the Four Noble Truths and by developing compassion for others.

The Five Precepts:
The moral code within Buddhism is the precepts, of which the main five are: not to take the life of anything living, not to take anything not freely given, to abstain from sexual misconduct and sensual overindulgence, to refrain from untrue speech, and to avoid intoxication, that is, losing mindfulness.

Karma:
Karma is the law that every cause has an effect, i.e., our actions have results. This simple law explains a number of things: inequality in the world, why some are born handicapped and some gifted, why some live only a short life. Karma underlines the importance of all individuals being responsible for their past and present actions. How can we test the karmic effect of our actions? The answer is summed up by looking at (1) the intention behind the action, (2) effects of the action on oneself, and (3) the effects on others.

Buddhism teaches that wisdom should be developed with compassion. At one extreme, you could be a goodhearted fool and at the other extreme, you could attain knowledge without any emotion. Buddhism uses the middle path to develop both. The highest wisdom is seeing that in reality, all phenomena are incomplete, impermanent and do no constitute a fixed entity. True wisdom is not simply believing what we are told but instead experiencing and understanding truth and reality. Wisdom requires an open, objective, unbigoted mind. The Buddhist path requires courage, patience, flexibility and intelligence. Compassion includes qualities of sharing, readiness to give comfort, sympathy, concern, caring. In Buddhism, we can really understand others, when we can really understand ourselves, through wisdom.

---------
Sounds strangely familliar, eh? lol...

 

[size=+1]SRI ADVAITA ACARYA[/size]


guru with long hairs...here he is offering Tulasi leaves to his Salagrama Sila praying for the advent Mahaprabhu

 

Buddhism is ok, but it differs from Krishna Consciouss philosophy in several ways. The main difference is that ultimately the Buddhists don't believe in a personal god,( or indeed any God ) the absolute for them, the Dharma Kaya,is impersonal. It corresponds very closely to Shankara's concept of Brahman. The absolute without qualities, or Nirguna Brahman, whilst Krishna is said to be Saguna Brahman.

It's true that there are many personal forms of the Buddha, but these are held to be on a lower level - Sambhogya Kaya, Nirmana Kaya, the Buddhas on a higher spiritual plane,similar to the Vedic Devas, and incarnate here respectively, as in the case of Gautama, the historical Buddha.
The goal of Buddhism is also concieved differently - for the Buddhist, the goal is Nirvana, a merging of individual being into the impersonal absolute, this is concieved of as the end of the individual being.
The Bhagavad Gita says that the soul,Atman,is eternally a spiritual individual. Its not that with liberation we will cease to be individual - the false ego-consciousness will be gone, but still, we remain as individuals in a relation to our source, God.
Please understand that I am not knocking Buddhism - I am only pointing out what are the differences, according to my understanding.

Hari Om.

 

ditto to BBB, Buddhist thought can be said to be one of not saying there is or isn't a God but an exploration of reality where one finds the truth when one arrives there... in K. C. we are given many premeditated realities such as Krishna being God without having the actual experience of that or the Heirarchal make up of the universe with Pitamaha Brahma at the head...much knowledge may thus cloud one's perception of the truth...in this regards, Mahaprabhu himself would proclaim "all i know of Krishna is that He's the son of Maharaja Nanda"... our learning from this is to chant the Holy Names in a loving and humble state without the encumbrances of knowledge and so we can see even in K. C., the values of the Buddhist perspective of having an innocent and passionate quest for truth and understanding via the path of compassion

 

yes...I see what you are both saying. I know that the Buddhists to not believe in a personal God...but I did read somewhere the reason was because when Buddha came people were not following Vedic principals, they were performing animal sacrifices and what have you, so Krishna came as Buddha and taught in that way, never saying anything about a personal God, because it was better to turn the people away from the animal sacrifices and what not...and little did they know that it was He, Krishna, who was Buddha...that's why I posted the above because it made me think of that and I do believe that Krishna was Buddha because a lot of the bit that I posted is very similar to what Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita (where I believe He also said that he came as the Buddha)....

 

I don't think that Krishna says specifically that He was Buddha. But Krishna is the original form - the Supreme Godhead, from whom all other Divine Incarnations are expanded.

This is what Krishna says in ch. IV of the Gita

TEXT 6



ajo 'pi sann avyayatma

bhutanam isvaro 'pi san

prakrtim svam adhisthaya

sambhavamy atma-mayaya



SYNONYMS



ajah--unborn; api--although; san--being so; avyaya--without deterioration; atma--body; bhutanam--all those who are born; isvarah--the Supreme Lord; api--although; san--being so; prakrtim--transcendental form; svam--of Myself; adhisthaya--being so situated; sambhavami--I do incarnate; atma-mayaya--by My internal energy.

TRANSLATION



Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.



TEXT 7



yada yada hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya

tadatmanam srjamy aham



SYNONYMS



yada--whenever; yada--wherever; hi--certainly; dharmasya--of religion; glanih--discrepancies; bhavati--manifested, becomes; bharata--O descendant of Bharata; abhyutthanam--predominance; adharmasya--of irreligion; tada--at that time; atmanam--self; srjami--manifest; aham--I.

TRANSLATION



Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.



TEXT 8



paritranaya sadhunam

vinasaya ca duskrtam

dharma-samsthapanarthaya

sambhavami yuge yuge



SYNONYMS



paritranaya--for the deliverance; sadhunam--of the devotees; vinasaya--for the annihilation; ca--also; duskrtam--of the miscreants; dharma--principles of religion; samsthapana-arthaya--to reestablish; sambhavami--I do appear; yuge--millennium; yuge--after millennium.

TRANSLATION



In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.