hare krishna

oh yeah! Man, ramble? hardly! the story was great. I like to read personal stories, cuz I know you from here and it's very pleasurable (is it a word? haha). I used to curse a lot too and when my friends, whom I haven't seen for years write me and they curse it seems as thought they were monsters, haha. they're quite scary. but as you said, it's hard to get rid of Krishna consciousness. I would do it immediately, cuz I'm so much enslaved by maya, that my senses would manipulated me had I had an alternative, but there's no other alternative. Nothing can be compared to Krishna consciousness and the pleasure you get from it. thanks BBB, your stories are good.



everybody check this, I've bumped into some Hare Krishna videos online stream. Quality is not that good, but if you wanna see Prabhupada go here:

http://64.93.28.242:1100/56KMpegView0.htm

 

Ooo...thanks for the videos SleepingJiva...I'll check 'em out when I'm more awake to actually take them in...lol...

Thanks for the story BBB. It does indeed seem that once you have experienced Krishna Consciousness...you can never totally leave it...its always there somewhere...isn't it in a book or a lecture that Prabhupada says something about every little bit counts...like even if you only become KC for a split second in this lifetime you will ultimately benifit from it....or something like that...I don't know...lol...I need some sleep.... 17 hours of marching band has wiped me out...so good night all. Hare Krishna!

 

Here are two of the songs of MiraBai (c. 1498-c. 1546). These poems are in the form of devotional song known as pada.

Rama Nama Rasa Pijai

Drink the nectar of the Divine Name, O human! Drink the nectar of the Divine Name!
Leave the bad company, always sit among righteous company. Hearken to the mention of God (for your own sake).
Concupiscence, anger, pride, greed, attachment: wash these out of your consciousness.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover. Soak yourself in the dye of His color.

Priceless Gift.

I have found, yes, I have found the wealth of the Divine Name's gem.
My true guru gave me a priceless thing. With his grace, I accepted it.
I found the capital of my several births; I have lost the whole rest of the world.
No one can spend it, no one can steal it. Day by day it increases one and a quarter times.
On the boat of truth, the boatman was my true guru. I came across the ocean of existence.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover, of whom I merrily, merrily sing.

Hare Krishna!

 

'The Mountain Holder'

 

He looks like a cute little kid who is teasing his friends... sort of like, "I'll bet you 10 bucks I can hold up this mountain with one finger..."
Friend: "No you can't"
Krishna: "See told you so..." with that cute mischievious smile...

I know that's not the story...but that's what His face makes me think of when I see the picture...its so cute.

 

hahaha. yes. I think He was like that, teasing and having fun.

 

Jai Mirabai !

Here's another of her songs.

Holi Raining Colours of Bhakti.

The saffron of virtue and contentment
Is dissolved in the water-gun of love and affection.
Pink and red clouds of emotion are flying about,
Limitless colors raining down.
All the covers of the earthen vessel of my body are wide open;
I have thrown away all shame before the world.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover.
I sacrifice myself in devotion to His lotus feet.

Hare Krishna!

 

Oh BBB...that's soo beautiful...

I love Mirabai...gdkumar had sent me a few of her songs awhile ago...

 

Krishna holding Mount Govardhan, ca. 1590–95; Mughal period (1526-1858)
India
Ink, colors and gold on paper; H. 11 3/8 in. x W. 7 7/8 in. (28.9 x 20 cm)
Purchase, Edward C. Moore Jr. Gift, 1928 (28.63.1)
Metropolitan Museum of Art
New York, NY

 

Sri Ramakrishna says, “Nothing is impossible for God. Nobody can describe His real nature. All is possible for Him. There were two yogis practicing sadhana. The sage Narada passed by. Knowing him to be Narada, one of them asked, ‘Are you coming from Narayana? What is He doing?’ Narada said, ‘I saw that He was passing camels and elephants back and forth through the eye of a needle.’ One of the yogis said, ‘What is there to marvel at? Everything is possible for Him.’ The other yogi replied, ‘Oh, no. That is impossible. You have never been there.’ ”

 

Nice picture, Nicole!

 

lol....now I have this strong urge to go to the Met and see it in person...I need to find a museum buddy...hehe

 

yes, nice picture nicole

btw, we are approaching the most sacred 108th page... 4 more to go

 

I was like, "Why 108?" but I thought about it for a second and now I get it....hehehehe...108 beads...I'm a little slow this morning....hehehe

 

108 Gopis too - hence the 108 beads in the mala.

Hare Krishna!

 

Ahh...that I did not know. Thanks for that new little fact! Hare Krishna!

 

[size=+3]The Significance of the number 108[/size]

The Indian Subcontinent rosary or set of mantra counting has 108 beads. 108 has been a sacred number in the Indian Subcontinent for a very long time. This number is explained in many different ways.

The ancient Indians were excellent mathematicians and 108 may be the product of a precise mathematical operation (e.g. 1 power 1 x 2 power 2 x 3 power 3 = 108) which was thought to have special numerological significance.

Powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power=1; 2 to 2nd power=4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power=27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27=108

Sanskrit alphabet: There are 54 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Each has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti. 54 times 2 is 108.

Sri Yantra: On the Sri Yantra there are marmas where three lines intersect, and there are 54 such intersections. Each intersections has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti qualities. 54 x 2 equals 108. Thus, there are 108 points that define the Sri Yantra as well as the human body.

9 times 12: Both of these numbers have been said to have spiritual significance in many traditions. 9 times 12 is 108. Also, 1 plus 8 equals 9. That 9 times 12 equals 108.

Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization.

Marmas: Marmas or marmastanas are like energy intersections called chakras, except have fewer energy lines converging to form them. There are said to be 108 marmas in the subtle body.

Time: Some say there are 108 feelings, with 36 related to the past, 36 related to the present, and 36 related to the future.

Astrology: There are 12 constellations, and 9 arc segments called namshas or chandrakalas. 9 times 12 equals 108. Chandra is moon, and kalas are the divisions within a whole.

Planets and Houses: In astrology, there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 equals 108.

Gopis of Krishna: In the Krishna tradition, there were said to be 108 gopis or maid servants of Krishna.

1, 0, and 8: 1 stands for God or higher Truth, 0 stands for emptiness or completeness in spiritual practice, and 8 stands for infinity or eternity.

Sun and Earth: The diameter of the sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth.

Numerical scale: The 1 of 108, and the 8 of 108, when added together equals 9, which is the number of the numerical scale, i.e. 1, 2, 3 ... 10, etc., where 0 is not a number.

Smaller divisions: The number 108 is divided, such as in half, third, quarter, or twelfth, so that some malas have 54, 36, 27, or 9 beads.

Islam: The number 108 is used in Islam to refer to God.

Jain: In the Jain religion, 108 are the combined virtues of five categories of holy ones, including 12, 8, 36, 25, and 27 virtues respectively.

Sikh: The Sikh tradition has a mala of 108 knots tied in a string of wool, rather than beads.

Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each.

Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey.

Meru: This is a larger bead, not part of the 108. It is not tied in the sequence of the other beads. It is the quiding bead, the one that marks the beginning and end of the mala.

Dance: There are 108 forms of dance in the Indian traditions.

Pythagorean: The nine is the limit of all numbers, all others existing and coming from the same. ie: 0 to 9 is all one needs to make up an infinite amount of numbers.

We have listed below 108 Upanishads as per the list contained in the Muktikopanishad . We have arranged them in four categories according to the particular Veda to which each of them belong.

Rigveda(10): Aitareya , Atmabodha, Kaushitaki, Mudgala, Nirvana, Nadabindu, Akshamaya, Tripura, Bahvruka, Saubhagyalakshmi.

Yajurveda(50): Katha, Taittiriya , Isavasya , Brihadaranyaka, Akshi, Ekakshara, Garbha, Prnagnihotra, Svetasvatara, Sariraka, Sukarahasya, Skanda, Sarvasara, Adhyatma, Niralamba, Paingala, Mantrika, Muktika, Subala, Avadhuta, Katharudra, Brahma, Jabala, Turiyatita, Paramahamsa, Bhikshuka, Yajnavalkya, Satyayani, Amrtanada, Amrtabindu, Kshurika, Tejobindu, Dhyanabindu, Brahmavidya, YogakundalinI, Yogatattva, Yogasikha, Varaha, Advayataraka, Trisikhibrahmana, mandalabrahmana, Hamsa, Kalisantaraaa, Narayana, Tarasara, Kalagnirudra, Dakshinamurti, Pancabrahma, Rudrahrdaya, SarasvatIrahasya.

SamaVeda(16): Kena, Chandogya, Mahat, Maitrayani, Vajrasuci, Savitri, Aruneya, Kundika, Maitreyi, Samnyasa, Jabaladarsana, Yogacudaman, Avyakta, Vasudevai, Jabali, Rudrakshajabala.

Atharvaveda(32): Prasna , Mandukya, Mundaka, Atma, Surya, Narada-Parivrajakas, Parabrahma, Paramahamsa-Parivrajakas, Pasupatha-Brahma, Mahavakya, Sandilya, Krishna, Garuda, Gopalatapani, Tripadavibhuti-mahnarayana, Dattatreya, Kaivalya, NrsimhatapanI, Ramatapani, Ramarahasya, HayagrIva, Atharvasikha, Atharvasira, Ganapati, Brhajjabala, Bhasmajabala, Sarabha, Annapurna, TripuratapanI, Devi, Bhavana, SIta.

[size=+3]The Significance of the number 108[/size]

We must agree that all measuring systems are merely reference frames. They give us a starting point. It doesn’t really matter if you call them farenheits or cycles. All science is based on fundamental assumptions of the mechanics of this universe. Yet, these assumptions, if correct, connect like building blocks.

Much in the same way, the number ‘108’ is just a reference frame. It is symbolic of a bigger picture: that of humility. When devotees recite 108 Hanuman Chalisas, in their minds they believe, they are proving their love for God, and that there is in fact a need to prove their love. When devotees assign a 108 names to Shri Ganesh, they are once again gauging their devotion through numbers. This, of course, may be considered unreasonable, since it suggests that 108 chants are more effective than 109 chants. How do they know this? Have they proved it? Is 108 the magic number of the universe? No, it is not! It is a reference frame. What is important is that a system is imposed to guide us through the fundamental struggles encountered in any evolutional process. Otherwise, chaos and anarchy follow and nothing gets done.

Having said that, I will show you justifications from a few subcultures in India. Obviously, I consider the Vedic rationale to be the most consistent with the fundamental laws of this universe. The others have borrowed and built, but it still smells of Vedic beginnings.

In present times, we can find many rationales for the proliferation of ‘108’ throughout our scriptures. In fact, this number seems to garner its unfair share of attention from myriad cults and faith systems around the world. I will give you a few justifications that have been brought to my attention.

JYOTISH SHASTRA {VEDIC SYSTEM}
This universe was created by the five elements: space, air, fire, water and earth. From these elements came the three attributes: Raj {birth}, Sat {protection} and Tam {destruction or death.}

The mathematical or geographical evidence proves that one circle has 360 degrees in space. Why is this circle or wheel of life considered to be of 360 degrees only? If we take a circle and start dividing it using the four elements and three attributes, all the logic can be observed.

The circle itself, is considered the first element of space, since we must consume space in drawing a circle. In this space {or circle}, the four remaining elements and three attributes create the idea of time. The circle is divisible by the product of four elements multiplied by three attributes. This involves the belief that the three attributes exist in the circle. By moving three times, each element completes its revolution.

So now we have the number 12 {3 x 4}. This division gave birth to our 12 months, and also to the 12 horas {1/2 of the day or Ahoratri}. We now have 360 degrees as well as 12 divisions. We can now further divide the wheel of time: there are 27 fixed stars (nakshatras) along with three attributes that divide the time in smaller portions. So this 27 + 3 = 30 is interpreted as 30 degrees or days of one part of the wheel (circle) or month. All of this is only half of a day. The night is yet unaccounted for. Therefore, we multiply these 30 degrees by 2. This gives us our reference of 60 seconds in a minute.

Thus the 360º x 30º = 10,800. Zero {0} is considered ‘Purna’ or complete. So we take out the last zeros and are left with 108. The idea of our total universe is represented by this number of 108. Offering 108, devotees believe that they are showing ultimate or complete respect to the Supreme.

There are many other justifications but all can be traced back to this system. A few are explained below:

SHOSHU BUDDHIST
Followers use 108 beads in their malas. They implement the following formula:
6 x 3 x 2 x3 = 108
6 senses [sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought]
3 aspects of time [past, present, future]
2 condition of heart [pure or impure]
3 possibilties of sentiment [like, dislike, indifference]

BUDDHA’S FOOTPRINT
All Buddhists accept the Buddha Footprint with its 108 Auspicious Illustrations. These areas are considered to have been marked on the Buddha’s left foot when his body was discovered.

BUDDHISM
108 beads on the Hindu maalaa {rosary}
108 Arhats or Holy Ones

HINDUISM
108 Gopis {consorts} of Lord Krishna
108 Holy places for Vaishnavas
108 beads on the Japa maalaa {rosary}
108 Upanishads
108 Divyadeshes - Divine or Sacred Tirtha throughout India and Nepal
108 sacred water taps in Muktinath - Nepal

TANTRA SHASTRA
108 Pitha {Sacred Places}
The story goes that Lord Shiva was in deep and incessant meditation. His asceticism was creating great heat in the universe. All existence was in peril and Lord Brahma was deeply concerned. Lord Brahma asked the Mother of the Universe, Maa Shakti, to use Her strength and wile to seduce Lord Shiva. Maa Shakti agreed and was born as Sati, daughter of Shri Daksha. Lord Shiva was so entranced by Sati’s asceticism and extraordinary beauty that he took human form and they were married. Years later, at a feast, Sati’s father insulted Lord Shiva. Sati was so humiliated that she began a deep meditation which led to her immolation. Lord Shiva was completely heart broken. He reached into the sacrificial fire and pulled out as much of His beloved’s body as he could grab. As He ascended to heaven, bits of Sati’s body fell to earth. 108 bits to be precise! In time, these places were acknowledged and worshipped.

SANATANA DHARMA
In a book by Khurana, the explanation closely mirrors the original Vedic justifications:
A circle has 360 degrees, which when multiplied by 60 gives us 21,600 minutes in a circle. 60 comes from the 60 'ghatis' which Sanatana Dharmiks believe in. One ghati is equal to 24 minutes and 60 ghatis come to 24 hours. One ghati is divided into 60 parts or 'palas'.
So the 60 ghatis multiplied by 60 palasa comes to 3,600.
This is further multiplied by 60 (becase a pala contains 60 vipalas) which gives us 21,600.
Half of this is for the day, and the other half for the night. So, 21,600
divided by 2 gives us 10,800. For practical purposes, we use 108. Using the
number 108 helps us coordinate the rhythm of time and space & we remain in harmony with the spiritual powers of nature.

 

Wow...that's really really interesting...

Thanks for sharing that Chief Cow Pie! Also, there are are 54 beads on the rosary that I bought at the Vatican (not counting the string of special beads...from the connector to the crucifix at the end)...

 

Thats very interesting stuff Chief - thanks for posting it.

I've also heard that at Angkor Wat there are 108 statues arranged in an avenue leading up to one of the main temples. 54 on either side.

 

In 1982, I began to seriously study Srila Prabhupada’s books, to do a lot of chanting, and generally to try to immerse myself in Krishna Consciousness as much as possible. How this came about is another story, but after several months of correspondence with the temple, I decided to take the plunge and go to see the devotees at Croombe Court, a large stately home in Worcestershire, England, which at that time was ISKCON’s European HQ. The guru presiding was Bhagavan Gurudeva, one of the twelve ‘successors’ named by Srila Prabhupada prior to His departure.
A friend of mine happened to live in Worcester, and had actually spent some time staying at CC, although he’d not met Bhagavan, and was very uncertain about Krishna Consciousness. It was agreed that we would go together in his car.

We arrived at about 11.00 am. The first thing I saw was a devotee seated on a bench outside repeating japa. I’d heard japa said very fast before, but this was too fast… he seemed to be trying to ‘get through it’ as quickly as possible. But I thought perhaps I was just placing my own construction on it. We were greeted by an American devotee, who told us we’d come at the right time; Bhagavan was in residence, and it was possible he would agree to see us personally. Mm.. I thought – straight in to see the main man! The American devotee went to enquire if Gurudeva would see us, leaving us in the company of a lady devotee, who was Italian, and spoke little English. I asked about the shaven heads, and she said hair is dirty for men. I asked why not for women too? But either she couldn’t understand, or couldn’t answer.

Another devotee came in and began telling me that this temple was like a hospital – where the disease of material attatchment was cured. Then the American returned to say that Bhagavan couldn’t see us personally, but we could stay until evening and attend his Darshan. I felt somewhat disappointed at this. But many contrary thoughts were already running through my mind. Was it my spiritual pride and so on that had made me think I’d get to arrive and go straight in to see the Guru? And these devotees – they didn’t seem right somehow. Not at all the atmosphere and enthusiasm I’d found in my meetings with devotees in Prabhpada’s time. They didn’t seem at all peaceful in some way – and there was a kind of feeling that some level of this was just an ‘act’ – a learned set of behaviours. Not a genuine outpouring of an inner consciousness, or even of faith, but something wholly assumed as a mode of outward action.

It was suggested that we go to the actual temple and view the Deities of Sri Pancha Tattva, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his principle associates, who are collectively worshiped, I believe, as the form of the Lord.

The temple was very nice, and had a wonderful series of paintings depicting Krishna’s earthly pastimes on the side walls. I felt something there- not very much, because my attention was drawn to a man who was seated at the back of the temple and who seemed to be in some distress. He kept wringing his head in his hands, and when he glanced up. An expression of hopelessness showed on his face. A younger devotee approached us. I asked about the other man. He said that he was a married devotee, hence no shaven head, who was having big doubts, which had gone on for some time. He went on that this was common. He said that Krishna Consciousness draws us in, and then all the old allure of material life comes in again – that people move in and out of it. I asked how long this person had been a follower, and was told he’d been in since the mid 70’s. I thought inwardly that this seemed a long time, only to be assailed by doubts which were obviously causing him great distress.

I talked for some time to the younger devotee, who explained that he’d only just come to CC, previously he’d been for some time at Bhaktivedanta Manor – the house donated by George Harrison. He was an attractive and well spoken young man, and urged me to put aside my doubts and join. I said I wasn’t sure. He replied that I’d feel differently after seeing Gurudeva. A group of female devotees had come in now, and one of them heard what was said and came over. Around her neck was a somewhat shrivelled old flower garland. She indicated this and smiled broadly. ‘A remnant of the Spiritual Master’ she exclaimed. ‘Gurudeva throws it in the air, and to get it is a great blessing’. ‘Male devotees will fight for remnants of the Spiritual Master ‘ she told me.

I didn’t much like the sound of this. But I smiled and said nothing, although by now I was having some doubts. This whole atmosphere wasn’t what I’d expected from my previous encounters with devotees. It wasn’t what I’d experienced in Prabhupada’s books, or in my own chanting, or meditation on Sri Krishna.

We returned back to the main house, were given a tour of certain areas, took some quite plain prasada, and sat talking to some other devotees. I can’t recall all that was said, but soon it was time for Kirtan, prior to Bhagavan’s coming down from his quarters to give Darshan.

The Kirtan took place in a kind of large entrance hall or lobby, with an enormous and beautiful picture of the child Krishna on the wall. The male devotees were all dancing with considerable physical energy, and they formed into a circle. At one point, a particular devotee was pushed into the centre, and another came forward and swung him around , arm in arm in the ‘country dancing’ style, but with such excessive force that the devotee was sent flying to the floor with quite a bump. This treatment I observed repeated two or three times. I was filled with disquiet.

Turning to a female devotee I asked her about it. ‘Devotees get excited dancing, and any pent up frustrations can come out – its all just play’ she assured me. But I was far from assured. I couldn’t equate this with what I’d read of Sri Chaitanya’s Sankirtan movement, what I’d experienced back in the 70’s with ISKCON, or indeed my own better judgement.

I noticed that the unfortunate devotee had a cut to the side of his head, but I wasn’t able to dwell on this because just then the chant changed from Hare Krishna to ‘Gurudeva’ as the great man made his appearance. As he walked past, I could hardly see him for the press of devotees. He entered a large room which had been prepared with a raised dais at one end, on which stood a large, ornate Indian chair, of the type Srila Prabhupada is often shown seated upon in photos. Gurudev took up his seat, and the same American devotee from earlier on, played a keyboard accompaniment to a further short Kirtan.

I noticed a group of Indians, three of four men standing at the back. All wore scowls on their faces, and looked somewhat sinister. One by one, devotees rose to their feet to pay respect to Gurudev with poems or just words of praise – but not their own words – rather, it was all done in phrases lifted almost verbatim from Prabhupada’s books. One could see their emotion, nonetheless, even though Bhagavan’s responses seemed a mixture of boredom and condescension. I focused hard on him, trying to feel something – anything. But all I could see was a common man – one taking a position to which he was not entitled. I felt some bitterness and frustration, and a kind of feeling of ‘oh no! oh no! what have I got into here?’

The whole atmosphere of this ‘Gurus’ ‘Darshan’ was not at all positive. I could sense some very unpleasant undercurrents of energy in the room, and the more I looked at Bhagavan, the more I was seeing him as an impostor, a fake, one with no spiritual presence whatsoever. Far from an atmosphere or aura of love, surrounding him was a wall of what looked and felt very much like sheer arrogance. The image of the Nazi’s chanting ‘heil hitler’ came into my head.

He eventually spoke a few words to all, to the effect that there are many stars in the material sky, but they are shooting stars, short lived. This was to prove prophetic in his own case, as later on, he eloped with a female secretary who had become his lover, and a pile of ISKCON cash, although the methods used to obtain this were very far from Srila Prabhupada’s intentions. I believe he was eventually prosecuted for fraud, swindling or something similar.

By now, all I wanted was to get out of there as fast as possible. I could feel an almost palpable aura of some threat – the others present seemed to be giving off a hostile vibration. The moment ‘Gurudeva’ had left the room, my friend and I , with one accord, almost ran out and to his car. He too said he’d felt very unpleasant vibes. It was almost like two men who’d just escaped being run over by a train by a hair’s breadth. It was a physical relief to be out of that place.

The truth is I was more conscious of Krishna just sitting at home, or doing jobs, or just about anything than I was that day. It began on a strange note, and ended in what was for me a big disappointment, but also a major breakthrough. It showed me clearly that this path was effectively closed to me in this form. Over time, I encountered other devotees, and was told I was wrong – I was stuck in material vision. But what the heart knows, the heart knows!

Sometime later, I became friendly with an ex-devotee of another of the pretender gurus, and he told me many things about ISKCON, from sexual abuse to out and out criminality that had gone on over the years. So I began to feel vindicated. The truth of my seeing as regards Bhagavan came when I heard the news of his ‘fall’.

Now, the nature and the scale of the scandals and fraudulence rampant in ISKCON is public knowledge. Those coming to Krishna Consciousness for the first time can hopefully be warned. But no doubt, some will be duped. That, in my humble opinion, is the danger in Prabhupada’s system – a pure devotee is needed at the top, or else the thing becomes a dangerous control mechanism, which exploits the real need people have to find the love of God. I pray that He will have mercy on all, and on Bhagavan, and all the other pretenders.