Health risks associated with MXE

You may indeed be correct sir, but do keep in mind her nurse friend at the rehab center and the withdrawal being worse than anything she'd said she'd ever seen in her life. It may or may not be as addictive, maybe not even lethal to stop cold turkey like benzos or booze, or in some cases, opies (i.e. if you have bad hypertension, the only reason I got scared when I first had to confront opiate withdrawal, strokes, heart attacks, aneurisms and the like), but I've found in my many years of dealing with the medical health professionals I've dealt with that they know their shit, and to say that GHB/GBL withdrawal is the worst of the worst is saying a lot IMO.

Aside from absinthe, unless it's a fruity concoction, like a girly, girly type drink, every one of those shy of absinthe is revolting to me.

WTF is this?! Are you just trying to razz this board or did you wander in here by accident thinking that the forum entitled "psychedelics" would be a great place to advertise for a healthcare equipment company or what?!!!

 

Oh yeah i'm sure k is more addicting but if you do get into GHB use be aware it's fucking horrible if you try n quit whereas k doesn't give a withdrawal at all.

 

have a look cosmoknot

http://guardian.co

Stidy is Even from cat tranqulizer boys home country

 

For some reason that link sent me a 404 Page Error Not Found message, if you could, would you summarize the gist of the article and what the most dangerous drug(s) are (it did show the title, just not the article). I'm quite curious. I would guess booze and crystal meth make the top of the list.

 

1) heroin
2) cocaine
3) barbituates
4) methadone
5) alcohol
6) ketamine
7) benzos
8) amphetamine
9) tobacco
10) bureniprone
11) weed
12) solvents
13) 4 - mta
14) LSD
15) methylphendate
16) steroids
17) ghb
18) Mdma

Ratings are strictly based on uk populations (England/Wales)

 

The list says weed then solvents...?

 

There is a variety of variables taken into consideration and I'm not sure I agree with the whole list nor do I live in the uk but there are some rather obvious truths to it.

 

Ketamine is a more damaging drug physically but GHB withdrawals scare the shit out of me. I've taken high doses of Ketamine combined with Alcohol and it never killed me or got me close to death yet GHB kills many combined with Alcohol. I just read the last 10 new erowid reports and one was of someone who almost died from Alcohol and GHB, from the report they barely did any of each as well!

I honestly believe GHB is a much more dangerous substance.

I've heard of friends addiction to GHB and it turned them psychotic and insomniacs. K addiction fucks up peoples stomachs/bladders and turns some quite zombified but most don't IME. Also know a lot of GHB related stories from friends of passing out and throwing up all over being unable to move for hours. know of some people who get floored from k but nothing like GHB

The GHB overdose level is so close to the actual getting high dose.

 

You have a pretty bias view ATM and having been one I know the tendency for ketamine addicts to downplay ketamine and over exaggerate other drugs dangers. You are wrong p0ly

Edit: I'll grant you the potency problem with G

 

Did they get a five year old kid whose been fed the 'say no to drugs' bullshit to write up this study? I mean even if this just a microcosmic study based on the UK population, it's rather biased. I highlighted the drugs that I know to be dangerously addictive and/or dangerous to kick, and I'm honestly surprised that amphetamine makes the cut whereas methamphetamine does not. Trailer park crank must be made in the UK by pikers the same way as it is here by So-Cal good-for-nothings, not to say that pikers are good-for-nothings, just that they live in trailer parks, trailer parks are meth breeding grounds, yada, yada, yada... Anyway!!! I would reorder those drugs into a listing of what I'd call most dangerous vs. not so much, and those I italicized, bolded, & underlined wouldn't even make the cut (except *perhaps* methadone), I mean fucking marijauna? This is obviously a very, very biased report, likely sponsored by & paid for by Tony Blair and gang, that would be my guess. They did hit some on the nail's head for sure, but even the order in which they listed these is way off base, and most certainly targeting those drugs that are the most vilified at the top of the list. Uh huh, yeah right I say to this rubbish report. Reorder these and take a few out and put a few in, and then it may even be credible, but as it stands, it's pretty damned bogus IMO. I'm not knocking you at all GB, I'm sure some of this shit made you laugh too, because like steroids and solvents (especially solvents for fuck's sake!) would be at the top of the list, right up there with meth and booze.

Honestly, GB, what was your take on it? I noticed GHB being at the bottom, so I assume you were making a point that special k is much more dangerous all around than GHB, but with such a biased list, don't you think it's safe to say that this one ought to be taken with a heavy grain of rock salt?

What the hell are those Brits thinking? lol... weed and acid, holy smokes, where did the writers of this shit get *their* educations at? hahaha

Oh yeah, I italicized & underlined 4-MTA & bureniprone because I haven't even heard of either. Do you know what they are GB?

Oh yeah, and last of all, tobacco is obviously a killer of all killers, but it's really *nicotine* that's the dangerous part (and maybe the MAOI in tobacco too, IDK). But even then, nicotine must be taken in rather high doses (like the form of nicotine used as a fertilizer or bug spray, whichever it is) to actually kill you outright. Hell, that blood pressure med, nitroglycerine (otherwise in other industries known simply as TNT or dynamite) is a much more dangerous drug on the circulatory system, which is what aside from the respiratory system that nicotine is dangerous when it crosses paths with it.

 

The guy lost his job I believe over this research not because it was supported by the government and funders, actually quite the opposite, because of the results it did suggest and I believe he constantly spoke for reclassification. I do not know what those few drugs are and we can probably substitue oxycontin for methadone in the us or harder prescription opiates in general.

I don't think the list is without flaws but I do think weed is worthy of being considered, one of the variables was social problems the drug creates and weed whether because of its widespread distribution or the relaxed stance taken towards it as an illicit drug does cause problems such as car accidents, habituation and increasing evidence with links to worseing certain mental conditions. It is below alcohol and tobacco though and that's all that matters to me.

I put more creedence towards the list then what some ketamine addict heard through the grapevine but I don't take this list at face value either.

 

Actually, here in the US, & I know this from my own degenerative spinal issues, methadone is first choice drug at pain clinics nationwide for treatment of chronic pain, generally augmented with something like hydrocodone or hydromorphone for breakthrough pain (plus, it's use in methadone clinics is also a nationwide method of treatment for heroin users substituting one opiate for the other opioid), so I'd disagree about the substitution of oxycodone for methadone; I was in fact prescribed methadone long before oxycodone back when the docs were actually taking care of my problems with grace and efficiency.

As for marijuana use, I would agree to a small extent that in some users metal habituation can become an issue, though never one I've personally dealt with, social problems and mental issues I'd actually throw into the same bag and give about the same overall percentages of the population of worldwide users experiencing either, and the biggest of those issues would be social withdrawal, anxiety, & paranoia by & large from all I've read, personally experienced, & seen in others. I think that of those issues, that the degree of variability is significant from one user to the next, but that generally, they're rather small issues in the grand scheme of things--though I have known a few habitual users to have been extremely moody, paranoid (though often in denial that's it the marijuana), & in at least one instance, it seemed to increase one guy's temper and violent impulses. So even there, I think that there's a link between the habituation and the social/mental issues brought on by regular use. But still, I don't see it as a majorly troubling problem, nor do I see a relaxed stance outside of California where marijuana stands. I'm in Texas ATM, and believe me, grass is the devil's weed here & violators are given maximum penalties for even small possession violations. You live in a bubble of tolerance there in So-Cal, but trust me, I've bounced around this country all over the place and tolerance is not something found abound in most American's homes (nor from what I gather in other countries either). As for car accidents caused by marijuana, I'll give credit where credit is due, sure it causes lapses in judgement & slowed reflexes & timing, but so too do many, many other drugs, so it isn't fair IMO to demonize it for causing car accidents. I personally do not condone driving while intoxicated on ANY substance, marijauna included. My car accident that I broke my neck & back in (along with various other injuries sustained) was in part a marijauna related accident, but other drugs were involved including liquor & benzos (coincidentally picked up in TJ just south of you just before crossing the border back into San Diego & attempting to make a drunken, drugged out sojourn back up to the Bay). Any heavy machinery should be avoided while intoxicated on any substance. You wouldn't go for drive through the country toking away at DMT would you? I know I learned my lesson & wouldn't drive on anything at all ever again. Well, I wasn't driving, but I wouldn't even get in the car with an intoxicated driver.

Hey, she may be an addict in some form of denial that you may very well be all too familiar with, but to her credit, she's been on this board for a long time & I think deserves more respect than just being "some ketamine addict", I'm not dissing on you man, but you could easily just say you put more creedance into that list than p0ly's opinions & heresay. But, even to that effect, like I said before, I have dealt with plenty of healthcare professionals over the last 7-8 yrs. & I'd say that (esp. having been to rehab within the past few yrs.) a nurse's word who works at a detox center is more than just something heard through the grapevine. I really don't put much creedance myself into that list simply because if it is indeed listed in terms of most problematic to least problematic drugs, it's very faulty, regardless of who sponsored it, who did the research involved, who wrote it, or who published it. I know for a fact from a chat with a doctor when I was a teenager doing stupid teenager things that solvents are about the worst & most damaging thing a person can ingest, inhalants on the whole are fairly damaging, with the exceptions of nitrous oxide & amyl nitrite (poppers) perhaps (though I'm not sure of that even, they may kill brain cells too, but likely not to the extent that huffing gasoline does).

 

There were some healthcare professionals involved who help compile the research on that list cosmoknot...

Dmt is a 5 minute trip and not a social problem in the slightest really, your point actually further proves what I was saying about marijuana relaxed stance. California might be really relaxed in regards to pot but I've talked to enough people on here and elsewhere to know that marijuana use is pretty widespread and laxed in Colorado, to New York, to Mexico, to the U.K. There is plenty of glamorization in media of weed as well (hip hop, reggae, rock music, the show Weeds, various movies) Thats fine if you disagree with the list, your entitled to your own opinion.

I don't mean to say ketamine addict as a slight to p0ly, but possibly due to past experience with ketamine addicts or for the obvious fact p0ly is admist his own addiction problems, its difficult for me to take him seriously comparing the addictiveness drugs and he won't even mention ketamine in there. To p0ly's credit he did start a thread about k addiction though and has made many worthwhile posts and turned me onto good music. If you haven't noticed by now I don't have the best social skills so a lot of things probably come off as more blunt or crass than I intend them to be. Regardless my opinions on the issue of Gbl/Ghb remain the same.

 

/facepalm

 

In case you haven't noticed by now, I don't exactly always play along well with others (not with malintent towards others either, ever) in *all* situations, though I do try & make an effort, and aspire to always be a better person. I know you're blunt & sometimes IDK if I'd go so far as to say crass, but maybe dry humored, maybe stuck inside of your own reality a little too much, maybe more of pragmatist and/or sometimes a bit fatalistic, I'm not sure, & I hope you know I mean you no disrespect, I know I'm a smartass & sometimes a rabble-rouser, which ain't so good neither. But I'd never say that you come across crass or rude, just occasionally moody or hot or cold or not to be bothered or somewhere between those worlds. I think you're a cool cat, man, but true as it ever was, you & I both could work on our collective social skills, lol. cheers guerrillabedlam

Okay now, so heathcare professionals also had some say in that report? I still say wow, because like I said, a doctor told me at a young age inhalants are the worst thing a brain could ever be inflicted upon by. I took that as sage wisdom, & I can proudly say I do not, will not, nor could I ever endorse a glue sniffing habit (see, I almost can't help but be a smartypants... I think I just amuse the shit out of myself too much, snarky has its place, but not necessarily in EVERY place... sigh). I don't know man, whatever kind of crackerjack docs gussied up that report with their statistics must know something I don't (& I do not claim to know even probably 5% of what an average healthcare professional, even in the UK, knows about the human body & the brain). Yes, I do have an opinion (oh that's probably my other biggest fault is being opinionated, IDK, I don't try to be that way though, I'm just constructively thinking about myself ATM), anyway, and that opinion is that still, regardless of how all of that was factored in, it is probably (or hopefully, otherwise I truly do believe it to be a sham) speaking to some specific community or group study or something. There is just no way in hell that weed is more of a social danger, health risk, & problem to some societies as is the use of inhalants (with of course my questionable views on nitrous oxide & amyl nitrite, which are obviously biased, but I'd hope right insofar as not being big brain cell killers, but somehow I doubt that I'm in the right on this one... double sigh).

Now finally, I think you failed to see my point, my point is/was that you wouldn't hop behind the wheel of a car & go joyriding around smoking shit like DMT that makes you see fractal patterns, faces, squigglies & wigglies even for the five to twenty minutes the trip lasts, it would simply be a hazardous & reckless thing to do, not to mention that it would indeed endanger others. I also highlighted the part about how my point reinforces your point because I do not see the connection, please elaborate. I have lived in Manhattan/Brooklyn, Oakland/Berkeley, Portland, Houston, Denver, Boise, SLC, Olympia, & now this one horse town in West Texas (though not for too much longer, I can only hope, and save, and hope, and save, and then eventually be back to Oakland) & only in California (where the dramady "Weeds" takes place in, as you probably know) have I ever been prescribed medical marijuana by a psychiatrist, issued a card at a co-op, & then been licensed to buy & carry marijuana with impunity & damned well known it. My psychiatrist, who is not at all a fraud, in fact, the best therapist I've ever had, prescribed me marijuana on the merits of what it could do, quite honestly, to assist me with coping with PTSD. Even in NYC where weed is fairly lax, you still have to look over your shoulder for cops if you're strolling the streets smoking a spliff. I am talking ALL from personal experience here, & I guarantee that even if anything I said seemed to confirm your point, I suppose there's some partial merit to that, but overall I still think weed is not at all a threat to humanity, in fact, IMO, it's a benefit to the species & there is even scientific data to suggest as much; some clever documentarians did a film on plants that have evolved throughout history with humans, apples being one, & you got it, weed being another, & they showed the reasons for its popular & widespread use--which is the part of my point I would wager fit within your point, but in the bigger picture actually doesn't. They also showed the brain at work with THC & assorted natural cannabinoids, & how its always been a friend to our civilization. Now I say that its widespread use & popularity don't actually fuel your point because regardless of recent social leanings towards acceptance, there are few places on planet earth where acceptance actually exists for the drug, California, the Pacific Northwest to an extent, Alaska, I believe Vermont, British Columbia, Jamaica in a very insular way, & likely Cambodia, Vietnam, & India as well as SOME but certainly not all Middle Eastern countries (& that's probably only true in whichever countries, maybe Morocco, who knows where, maybe even Afghanistan & Pakistan, but only true for natives, much like Jamaica, which I know to be at least true of Jamaica... outsiders can toke there in designated spots, even buy weed off of ganja boats, but try carting that shit around or leaving the country with it or even using it outside of the safe zones & you get popped... actually, the same is true of the Dominican Republic, though much less publicized). Colorado does indeed have a more lax attitude than other states too, but I do believe even there it's a criminal offense (correct me if I'm wrong). All I'm saying is that, & not to be punny, it is a pipe dream for most of the world, in spite of popularity, controversy, media coverage, etc. It is quite simply, vilified throughout the world, even while guys like Bill Mahr are coming out on HBO as pot enthusiasts, & that much can still be verified EVEN in California of all places where they STILL run those ads showing a guy melting like butter into a couch after smoking a joint. You know the anti-drug commercials I mean GB. I don't know, since we're both citing personal experience as well as scientific research to back up our claims, I would say the fairest as well as truest reality probably lies somewhere between our views. But that's just it, they are mainly our separate subjective views. And anyway, why are we going on about it anyhow when as you said, it falls below tobacco & alcohol & that's all that matters to you anyway? I'm a huge advocate, & it would be my educated guess that you too inhale

Why don't we just settle this matter by lighting up a doobie at 2PM CST & just enjoy getting high & sharing the positive weed vibes from halfway across the country to one another? Sound good GB? Let's make it a date, today, that's in one hour so don't be late!

See you through the cloud of hazy smoke, man!

 

HAHAH I wish I had something to light up!

You seem to be going off on tangents and while there may be some validity to certain things you are saying, I thought I made it clear when I posted the list that the info compiled was strictly from the UK. I do think our country mirrors the UK far more closely than Middle East or Far East countries in regards to drug policy, so I think it's a study that at least should be taken into consideration.

 

Oh, you did make yourself very clear that it was UK study alone, I do agree too that much of UK policy & US policy concerning narcotics mirror one another, & I thought (didn't I? I know I get tangential, I have some wicked ADHD & refuse to take my damned Ritalin regularly for it, lol, just not another physician imposed drug habit I need, ya know?) I stated something to the effect that there may be merit to it, especially if its regarding a group study or a community specifically, but on the whole I just fail to believe that those narcotics in that order are the most dangerous on down the list to the least dangerous, especially (again) where inhalants are concerned being placed below weed. Don't you see my point that I'm ultimately attempting to make? As a case study, certainly it warrants concideration, but the fact alone that something unheard of by both you & I alike, a couple of walking, talking drug Encyclopedia Browns, that 4-MTA shit (am I even getting its name right, & there's the other one whose name totally slips me now) makes the cut whereas meth does not says to me it likely is a case study, so sure I will grant its place, but its place is not necessarily on sound ground where either you or I live, ya feel me?

Anywhooo..... I'll strike up for the both of us here in a half hour dude! Keep on rockin' the So-Cal vibes brotha!!!

EDIT: Stoned for the both of us man, as promised & now delivered!

 

Well, I just hope MXE doesn't do anything too terribly bad or I am fucked.

 

what exactly was this UK study ranking the drugs in order of? SOCIAL HARM?
part of that, cosmo, comes from the fact that most of the world is legally harsh on cannabis. it's against the law, so it's very harmful socially, as it turns otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals.

also, i saw that documentary on netflix. "the botany of desire"
apples, cannabis, potatoes and tulips (i think i'm right on the last one)

 

It was ranking on a combination of personal harm to the individual and social harm as well, possibly some other variables as well.

Particular statistics were deaths (direct or associated), seizures and other hospital visits/medical problems I believe.

Alcohol is number 5 on the list and perfectly legal
Tobacco is ahead of pot and again legal.