Hello, any Jewish Here!

Cat,

to answer something you stated earlier, some Orthodox Jews believe in panentheism based on the Torah. After all we say, "Listen Israel, YHWH is our God. YHWH is one." If Hashem is one then there can be no other. That means that all is Hashem. Also see Deuteronomy Chapter four line 35. "...YHWH, He is God, and there is none else besides Him." This also supports panentheism.

I'm not Orthodox but those are traditional sources from Torah for the Orthodox Jewish belief that all is God.

Dauer

 

Dauer
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What does YHWH mean? Does it mean Lord?
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I think it isn't a logical interpretation? Other wise, Moses will clarify this concept of God?! I think the concept of God in Torah is too clear.
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But it means that there isn't another God with him but him alone!
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Thank you for the information dear dauer.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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YHWH stands for the tetragrammaton which is Yod Hei Vav Hei and is not pronounced. It does not mean Lord although sometimes the word Adonai which means my Lord is substituted for it. Sometimes Hashem which means The Name is substituted for it as well. Sometimes it is translated as Is-Was-Will Be. Sometimes it is translated as the One-Who-Brings-Into-Being. Sometimes it is seen as standing for the four worlds of mystical Judaism or for the immanent and transcendant. Sometimes it is seen as meaning I-will-be or other interpretations. It's complicated.

If God is one and God is infinite then all is God. Further, just as you have hadiths for quran, Judaism has secondary texts that help to interpret Torah, like the Talmud and the Zohar. Judaism is actually a religion of interpretation, according to some.

How do you know that that's all that it means? Our sacred texts sometimes disagree with you. Also, it does not say that there is no god but Him alone, it says there is none besides Him. Why does it use that language? The language points that there are literally none but Him. Otherwise, it would say that there are no gods but Him alone.

Dauer

 

Dauer
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I am wondering, how did the orthodox Jewish reconcile their concept of God with these verses: Deuteronomy 13. 2, 5: whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt,
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Deuteronomy 13. 6-9: If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him;thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die
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However that's up to them at.
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Do you know a website where I can find Talmud and Zohar in modern English language?
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The sunnah (what the Prophet Muhammad said, did, or approved of) is the second source in Islam. The sunnah is comprised of hadeeths, which are reliably transmitted reports by the Prophet Muhammad’s companions of what he said, did, or approved of. Belief in the sunnah is a basic Islamic belief. How about the Talmud and Zohar it is like haddiths too.
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I think It is too clear and there are verses which support it.
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Yes, your explanation is rightè there are no gods but Him alone = none [other god] but Him = there is none besides Him= one god.
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Peace
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Cat,

in reference to the verses from Deut, how do you know it is gods they have not known? I showed you verses from Torah that make reference to it.

Unfortunately, there are no reliable translations of the Talmud or Zohar online. There are actually many books, not just those, which are semi-canonical, like the volumes of certain commentators such as Rashi.

You're putting words into the verse that are not there. If it meant that it would have said that. From an Orthodox perspective Torah is the word of God and so the specific wording can be extremely important. If it's worded in one way over another, that wording itself can have meaning.

Dauer

 

Dauer
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That is what is stated in the verse
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Deuteronomy 13. 2, 5: whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods which thou hast not known,
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I think it means that, people made them Gods and they are (Gods) didn't claim or proclaim that they are Gods.
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Or they don't know about them from the God of the Torah and Moses but they heard about them so they don't know about them but they heard about them and asked more about them and then they accepted them as Gods. I.e. Gods which they have not known that God (of Torah) hadn't mention them as Gods.
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Yeah, I already commented on it. I don't know when did their concept exist?, I mean was it existed after Moses time or death, if so then it is innovation / However that's up to them, I just gave my view.
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I see, thanks for the information.
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I just put it to clarify it more; it is the same if I won't put them, that's why I put them between brackets. I will color what you wrote in Post # 43 with blue ok
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There are no gods but Him alone = there is none besides Him = there are literally none but Him = there is one god.
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It is like when I say about (George bush for example): there are no presidents but him alone= there is none besides him= there are literally none but him= there is one presidentè (in the US)
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I think it is clear. Again that's up to them.
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(Deuteronomy 6.4) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
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(Isaiah 43:10-11) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
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(Isaiah 44.6) … I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
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(Isaiah 45.21-23) … I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself …That unto me every knee shall bow …
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May God show us the truth and guide us to his right path always
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Amen
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Cat,

I'm not denying that other verses, Isaiah for example, speak that there is only one God. What I am saying is that one Orthodox perspective says that this verse is saying something different. Another verse: "holy holy holy is Yah (another substitute for the tetragrammaton) Tzevaot. The whole world is full of His glory." Isaiah 6:3.

Oh, also, I think I wasn't clear in answering something. The Talmud is understood to be from people who are in a lineage that traces back to Moses. Some mystical texts are said to be written by ancient people traditionally, like Abraham. Other texts become "big" because they are words that have been expounded from Torah, like the Rambam's Guide for the Perplexed which tries to explain Torah based on an Aristotelian worldview. He's in the same category as a number of Muslim philosophers but I couldn't name them.

Dauer

 

the dauer
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I know, dear dauer =), I was just giving my comments and views.
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what does tetragrammaton mean?
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they understand from this verse that everything is God, I think it isn't logical and will contradict with the other verses which I mentioned some of them formerly, And the most important thing Moses peace be upon him didn't give
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Such concept, but yeah that's up to them. The whole world is full of His glory." Isaiah 6:3è it is like when I say, the whole town is full of his (Peter's) kindness, which points that Peter is very kind, and his kindness reaches all the dwellers in the town by his behaviors towards them or by helping them etc = the town is full of his kindness.
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wow, very interesting, thanks, do all sects or doctrines of the Jews refer to the Talmud? Or some just settle for Torah (OT)?
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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