HELP!!! My son's school is trying to lable him as ADHD...

Sometimes it's also a hypersensitivity to phosphate, which is in a lot of processed foods. There are Cookbooks, whith recipes to substitute these things. You should definately look at the stuff your son's eating, and maybe check the phosphate content. A lot of modern fertilzers are of Phosphate basis... which is kinda bad.....

 

I liked a lot of what you had to say but I do take point with your singling out of these activities as busy time in that they have no integral worth of their own...lunch, not a bad thing...keeps us nourished and allows for the practise of socialisation..recess...another oppurtunity to keep bodies nourished and more soicalising practice so that we can learn to get along with others. PE...well given the problems that most of the western world is having with weight I think this might be a subject that should be encouraged! music...and I am presuming here so please excuse me if I am wrong but I am presuming that you are also inferring art as well and other such creative subjects...well if your teacher is doing a good job these should be an oppurtunity for all children to engage in a creative process or to learn the tools necessary to engage in their own time. I am sure I know one or two people who are passionate about algebra as well that could come up with a multitude of examples of places where we could or might use these skills in our lives...
sure there are a lot of things in school that at times seem irrelevant to us...however I think that the problem most kids who get bored with stuff in class is not necessarily the content but rather the way in which they are being asked to engage with it. School is just the beginning of a life of learning and therefore not everything is gong to be relevant to everyone but it doesn't hurt us to learn about a broad range of things to start with.
To me the lack of engagement with the different things at school quite often can have more to do with the number of children in a class and the ability or desire of the teacher to engage the students than with the integral worth of what they are learning.

 

Thank your Nanny State....they "know what's best" for the "children".

 

i did. i do. i just did not agree that twist should accept the 'inevitable diagnosis'.

there was a 1,100 percent increase in ADHD being diagnosed in American children between 1987 and 2001. americans use 90 percent of the manufactured drugs prescribed for these ‘disorders’. so… are our kids just totally out of whack? or are these disorders being over diagnosed, and are doctors erroneously prescribing speed to our kids for some pharmaceutical company to make big bucks? AND, here’s a real conspiracy part if you are so inclined – schools get a ‘kickback’ for every kid it gets into special ed – in 1991, federal rules were adopted which granted US schools $400 for each child diagnosed with ADHD.

i cannot believe that you pooh-poohed her fears of the treatment drugs – those drugs are called kiddie coke for a reason, they are highly addictive and incredibly abused.

parental involvement should be the number one treatment. drugs should be used as a last resort, in my opinion. BECAUSE, as an adult when they are cut loose, if they have relied on external forces to keep their behavior under control their entire childhood, they have a very good chance at failing in life.

Then there are these things to consider:

• The Department of Defense has an official policy of turning away all recruits who have taken Ritalin or other similar drugs after the age of twelve.
  

yeah, maybe you don’t want your kid in the military since we’re all fer peace love & hippyshit, but that takes another option away from your kid. and why don’t they want your kid? cuz they’ve been taking an ADDICTIVE DRUG, and are at least 3 times more likely to use cocaine.

• from the DEA website http://www.dea.gov/pubs/cngrtest/ct051600.htm
  
  Abuse Liability
  
  Extensive scientific literature spanning over 30 years of research unequivocally indicates that both methylphenidate (commonly known as Ritalin®) and amphetamine (primarily Adderall® and Dexedrine®) have high abuse liabilities:

o They are self-administered by laboratory animals and humans;

o They produce discriminative stimulus effects similar to cocaine in laboratory animals and humanso They will substitute for each other and for cocaine in a number of paradigms in both animal and human subjects;
o Chronic high dose administration of either drug in animals produces psychomotor stimulant toxicity including weight loss, stereotypic movements and death; and
o In clinical studies, they produce behavioral, psychological, subjective, and reinforcing effects similar to cocaine.

In more simplistic terms, this data means that neither animals nor humans can tell the difference between cocaine, amphetamine, or methylphenidate when they are administered the same way at comparable doses. In short, they produce effects that are nearly identical.

​

• http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/abuse/5-stim.htm#Methylphenidate
  
  Binge use, psychotic episodes, cardiovascular complications, and severe psychological addiction have all been associated with methylphenidate (Ritalin®) abuse.

Maggie, these are your other statements that made me give you the big pppbbbbtttt!

Ritalin and Adderall are both Schedule II.

i would really love you to provide proof of that statement, this is what i’ve found:

The Netherlands Advertisement Code Commission (Reclame Code Commissie) has ruled that the country's Brain Foundation cannot claim that the controversial psychiatric condition Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is a neurobiological disease or brain dysfunction…. The report on mental health, specifically stated that, ''No single gene has been found to be responsible for any specific mental disorder'' Also, the report states ''There is no definite lesion, laboratory test or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the (mental) illness.''



​

uh huh. how can they easily diagnose something that is not pathological? now we come to the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)… the psychiatric diagnosis – hmmm, criteria would be found in the DSM-IV, right? so here’s a little history of the DSM…

"In 1952, the American Psychiatric Association published its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM). It listed 112 mental disorders, up from seven in 1880.


In 1968, the manual was revised and called the DSM-II. It listed 163 mental disorders, including a whole new category of “Behavior Disorders of Childhood and Adolescence.” These new ailments – each of which could be considered a “handicap” – appeared shortly after psychiatry procured federal funding for treating handicapped children.

Commentary in the DSM-II revealed that the listed “disorders” had not been established by scientific evidence but by a committee which voted on whether they existed. Later versions of the DSM used this same “scientific” criterion – “electing” new disorders.

When the DSM-IV was published in 1994, the number of mental disorders listed jumped to 374. While this manual provides an extensive list of mental disorders, it admits that no definition specifies precise boundaries for the concept of a “mental disorder”.


​

and here are the criteria the DSM-IV outlines for add/adhd diagnosis, just in case anybody was wondering:

Inattention:


​

a. often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities


b. often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities

c. often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly

d. often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)

e. often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities

f. often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)

g. often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books or tools)

h. is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli

i. is often forgetful in daily activities

Hyperactivity-Impulsivity

​

a. often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat


b. often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected

c. often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)

d. often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly

e. is often "on the go" or often acts as "driven by a motor"

f. often talks excessively

g. often blurts out answers before questions have been completed

h. often has difficulty awaiting turn

i. often interrupts or intrudes on others


​

ok, so i should give my kid a Schedule II drug because he interrupts? is disorganized? fidgets? dislikes schoolwork? using these criteria, just about anybody could be ‘diagnosed’ with ADD or ADHD. hell, just today alone i forgot my sunglasses (g), didn’t know the library would be closed (e), got distracted by ducklings at the park (h), was reluctant to engage in my chores (a, b, d, f, h), didn’t seem to listen to my eldest son (c). ADD i must be!!


maggie, i’m not tryin to pick a fight with you – this is just something that i feel incredibly strong about. these drugs are addictive. addiction is not a good thing to teach your children – self regulation skills can be taught, it takes time and effort but i would rather see my son learn how to interact with others and focus his thoughts independantly. it can be done. i did it as a single mom that had to work, if i could have i would have home schooled him but that wasn’t an option. now he’s coming to an age where he has turned the corner and i thank god i didn’t put him on drugs.

 

hey proud2deviate...sounds to me like your teachers sucked!! an all too common problem...not always intended by the teacher but sometimes inflicted from the system within which they work...no excuses if the teacher is the one responsible!! I think we can safely say however that student engagement in the classroom is a complex topic that relies on a variety of people and factors!!

 

Ya its actually rediculous. The schools always say "oh ur so and so has adhd".Half the diagnosis these days are wrong.. We just need a pill for everything dont we?

peace
chickens

 

Gr8t, you may disagree, but I have damaged my own child by resisting an ADHD diagnosis.

THey get funding. Is installing a wheelchair ramp a "kickback?" It comes from the same thing. They get funding to help with the emense amount of money it takes to educate a special ed child, BUT they usually end up spending MORE than the government gives them for each child in the program AND kids who have a 504 Plan instead of an IEP DO NOT GET ANY money for special programs or accomodations. I have kids on 504s so I know!

It isn't ON a "gene." The human Geome is nowhere NEAR completley mapped, but ther eare plenty of REAL illlnesses which are not ON "genes." Only a small number of illnesses and conditions are gene related. But there are plenty of proof in PET scans and even MRIs that kids with ADHD underuse parts of the brain.

If you don't want to medicate, don't. I damaged my own child by this type of thinking, and I think people need ALL the data, not conspiracy theories and half truths (like the LIE that Adderall and Ritalin are "coke") to prevent facing the truth.

Scheduled drugs are NOT all the same. That would be like saying that Methadone and Ritalin are "in the same class." Schedule II simply means that there are restrictions in writing prescriptions, that a new script needs to be written every month, and that there is a "possibilty" of abuse or dependence. ALL DRUGS in Schedule II are NOT related Chemically and Ritalin and Adderall are NOT related Chemically to Cocaine. THey are both stimulants, but again, so is caffeine as well as Epehdra and Gotu Cola.

Do you REALLY want to take the ARMY'S word on what constitutes mental health and what doesn't? Please. That is grasping at straws. They also can turn away people who have pins in their arms or legs, plates in their heads, have ever take an antiseizure drug, have been diagnosed with depression, claims to be a "homosexual" ect ect ect. Why would the decisions of the Armed Forces have ANY relevence to getting proper treatment for a child with a disabilty? ("Damn, we won't get that epilepsy treated, because then my son can't go and kill innocent brown people and die a horrible death in the Godforsaken desert!") What the Military cares about is not even on my mind, when my children need medical care. I can't imagine WHO would care.

 

I can find them if you want. Children with true ADD or ADHD who are NOT treated are MORE likely to abuse street drugs than their treated peers!!!! WHY? Because they attempt to self medicate. There are a least 3 good studies (not funded by drug companies) which prove this.

Medications used responsibly do NOT lead to addiction. UNTREATED illnesses often do lead to self medication, which can often lead to drug and alcohol addiction.

 

i am in regular contact with justices dr & we are waiting for his appointments with a specialist, allergist & some one who can study his sleep patterns. until that happens i've changed his diet, added more protein, cut back on sugars (he never got much to begin with & never gets soda). we've changed bedtime & most routines to make them more structured and we are trying to give him much more attention. i've seen a bit of an improvement the past week or so. BUT - if after all the testing is complete & there is no stone left unturned - the dr.'s suggest medicating him, i will. right now the dr.'s don't think it's necessary. i hope it stays that way. i'm not against medicating (i believe i came across that way) i'm afraid of it. especially with a stimulant - both my side of the family (my mom, 4 of 6 uncles, 3 of 6 aunts, grand mother grand father ect.) and my husbands side of the family (his dad, brothers & sisters (19of them), uncles & so on) have serious addiction problems. when i was 16 i put myself in rehab for cocaine abuse. i fear that because of these hereditary problems justice would be more easily addicted to most stimulants than any other child. maggie, i support your choice and all your advice 100%. and i thank everyone else who has so far posted, eventhough i haven't liked some of it & some really stung (there's no such thing as adhd just bad parenting) i have taken it all to heart listened, learned & researched & i will continue to do so as long as people care enough to share their opinions with me.

 

twist, could an undiagnosed ADHD in you have caused you to self medicate with coke? Most kids who have unrecognized ADHD use either coke or Meth to "treat" themselves. As a stimulant, it may help with focus, but these drugs are just to abusable to be used safely for ADHD, which is why the meds on the market are used.

I applaud you for going the extra mile for you boy! Keep up the good work.

 

Wilens TE, Faraone SV, Biederman J, Gunawardene S. Does stimulant therapy of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder beget later substance abuse? A meta-analytic review of the literature. Pediatrics. 2003;l11:179-185.



Is there a relationship between stimulant therapy for children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and use of illicit drugs in adulthood? Two studies published recently in Pediatrics address this issue. The results of the first, a longitudinal study, failed to demonstrate a connection. The authors of the second study (a meta-analysis) contend that early stimulant therapy may actually confer protection against adult drug abuse.



The meta-analysis conducted by Wilens et al included six studies involving 674 ADHD patients taking stimulant medication (primarily methylphenidate and amphetamine) and 360 subjects who were not prescribed medication. The investigators found "compelling evidence" to suggest that stimulant therapy in childhood significantly decreased risk of drug and alcohol use in adolescence and, to a lesser degree, adulthood. The authors speculate that these medications may reduce the incidence of drug abuse risk factors, such as poor self-esteem and the inability to succeed academically and occupationally--which are also symptoms of ADHD.



COPYRIGHT 2003 Clinicians Publishing Group









Boys Treated With Stimulants Less Likely To Abuse Drugs As Adults

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Aug. 3, 1999 -- Boys with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) who are treated with stimulants such as Ritalin are significantly less likely to abuse drugs and alcohol when they get older, according to a new study funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

The study, which appears in yesterday’s issue of Pediatrics, compared three groups of boys -- those with ADHD who had been treated with stimulants, those with ADHD who had not been treated with stimulants, and those without ADHD -- and their susceptibility to substance use disorder.

ADHD, which is characterised by difficulties in paying attention, in keeping still, and in suppressing impulsive behaviours, is usually treated with stimulants, such as Ritalin (methylphenidate) or dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall) because these drugs reduce the behavioural and attentional problems connected to their ADHD.

As a result, children with ADHD perform better in school and on the job and relate better to family and friends. Research indicates that between three and five percent of all school-age children have ADHD and that the disorder is about four times more prevalent among boys than girls.

"While some clinicians have expressed concern about giving stimulants to children with ADHD because they fear it might increase the risk that these children will abuse stimulants and other drugs when they get older, this study shows exactly the opposite," said NIDA director Alan Leshner. "Treating the underlying disorder, even if with stimulants, significantly reduces the probability they will use drugs later on."

In the study, researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard School of Public Health, and Harvard Medical School compared the incidence of substance use disorders in 56 boys with ADHD who had been treated with stimulants for an average of about four years, in 19 boys with ADHD who had not been treated with stimulants, and in 137 boys without ADHD. All boys were at least 15 years old when they were evaluated for substance use disorders involving alcohol, marijuana, hallucinogens, stimulants or cocaine. In a substance use disorder, a person continues to use a mood- or behaviour-altering substance despite the fact that this substance causes significant problems in the person's life.

Results of the study showed that 75 percent of the nonmedicated ADHD boys had at least one substance use disorder, compared to 25 percent of the medicated ADHD boys and 18 percent of the boys without ADHD. The researchers -- Dr. Joseph Biederman, Dr. Timothy Wilens, Eric Mick, Dr. Thomas Spencer, and Dr. Stephen Faraone -- calculated that treating ADHD with medication (stimulants were used in over 90 percent of cases) was associated with an 84 percent reduction in risk of developing a substance use disorder. These researchers will continue to study this entire group of boys in a follow-up study funded by NIDA.

In previous studies, these same researchers had found that nearly twice as many adults with ADHD also had developed at least one substance use disorder at some point in their lives, compared to adults without ADHD. The adults with ADHD had developed the disorder in childhood and, in most cases, the disorder was neither diagnosed nor treated until much later.

 

i didn't say it was coke - i can't believe you are calling me a liar. it's NOT coke, i never said it was, that's street slang - it's methylphenidate (Ritalin) and amphetamine (Adderall and Dexedrine). face what truth? that i HAVE to medicate my son? i don't think so - the truth is we make it without drugs, cuz i take the TIME to make it work.

they are in the same class!!!!

that is NOT what places a drug on a schedule. "possibility" of abuse or dependece relies on the DRUG ITSELF - not the user. addiction is a physical manifestation - not all in your head.

duh!!!! i'm not that stupid - i know that just cuz they are in the same schedule that doesn't make them the same drug.

I CARE. I DO NOT WANT TO PUT MY KID ON ADDICTIVE DRUGS. my son has always said he wanted to be an astronaut - well, that would require a stint in the air force, along with college. now that he's 12, he's not saying that much anymore - but damn, who am i to take away those choices for him?

whatever maggie, call me a liar, tell me i'm an idiot for not putting my kid on an ADDICTIVE drug, make me look like an ass for not taking his choices away from him, tell me that there is no way you can TEACH SELF-REGULATION - i'm not backing down from my position. i have fought this fight for years with people who really affect our life.

mod rhymes with god, so i guess you'll be right no matter what. i'm not coming back to this thread, or this forum, or anywhere i see you cuz no matter what YOU ARE ALWAYS RIGHT and you always make me out to be an idiot.

ban away...

 

maggie, that very well could have been the reason. to be honest i always thought i was doing it because i wanted to. i never got in any trouble at school, was an honor roll student straight through high school, worked full time while going to school & i took care of my grand father who had a stroke & was fell time cook & house keeper for my parents & 2 brothers. but, looking at me nowadays, scatterbrained & no real motivation, anything is possible.

 

Twist, it really looks like you are looking hard a ALL angles of this issue. Keep up the good work. You son will benefit from whatever you do, your mama-sense will shine!

Gra8t, I didn't call you a liar, honey. I was refering to the hype that Adderall and Rit are "coke" was a lie (and there are web site that will tell you that.) Gra8t, I never remember ever telling YOU to put your child on any drugs, nor anyone else. I was giving an educated, and experienced opinion. I didn't even know you personally, were facing the issue. (I didn;t even know you had kids that age.) It appears you are really stricken with a lot of greif about it, and I'm sorry about that. I am sorry you are suffering through such a hard time.

Peace child.

 

maggie, you say your daughter's tourette's was helped by meds. i'm curious about this because my boy is tic-ing like crazy the past few months (sniffing, blinking, throat clearing, humming, almost constantly when he's awake, he says he likes the patterns) what kind of tics did your daughter have and how much did the meds help? Have you heard about a heart med that's supposed to help tics? I worry so much about my boy being bullied

kathy

 

Kathy, Sunshine had so many tics. Sniffing, gulping, repeating words, screaming, full body tics, she would swing her arms out and back. It was horrible. Yeah, some Beta blockers are used sometimes. Sunshine was on Nifidepine. She was also on Orap (the first drug usually used for TS.) It is specifically FOR Tourette's. The Nifedipne and Orap weren't enough (and yeah, she got bullied like hell) so I finally gave up my resistance and let them put her on Adderall. It was amazing. Not all kids get better with Stimulants, in fact about 30% have worse tics, but they will go back to the way they were when you take them off the Stimulants. About 66% of kids with TS and ADHD actually get better on Stimulants. Our neurologist prefers Adderall to Ritalin.

Also, especially when you are dealing with Tourette's or any tic disorder, therapy is essensial. It helped my dd so much.

Most kids with TS also have ADHD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder to some extent. A good Neurologist is the best to treat a child with such a complicated diagnosis, I don't trust a minimally trained Pediatrician for something like this, personally.

If you want to PM me, you can.

 

Kids are misdiagnosed for ADHD all the time! I don't think your son has a problem, it's just the fact that teachers and parents don't want to let kids be kids these days. I think that maybe a small percentage of kids have ADHD that requires medicine... but other than that, I think they hand the stuff out like candy. I think you and your husband have made the right decision to take him to get a second opinion. Never trust the school system to make big decisions like this for your family. My parents were coaxed by the public school system to put both of my brothers on ritalin because he showed a lot of the same signs your son did. My parents said HELL NO because they didn't want my brothers to be walking around like zombies all the time. They didn't believe in doping them up just because other people didn't want to let boys be boys. Now, they have tried to put my nephew on ritalin as well. Thank God, my brother said NO WAY! He's a very bright 6-year-old, and he seems to be fine to us! It seems like boys are diagnosed more than girls are... I'm not sure why that is. I also know that my male cousin has been on head drugs from a VERY young age... probably since age 5 or so. Now that he is in high school, he has battled with depression and has made SEVERAL suicide attempts. Personally, I think the side effects may be linked to the head drugs he's been on. I just don't think it's fair to kids to drug them up when they have no idea what is going on. Just my personal opinion, though....

 

I know that both of my brothers' teachers tried to get them on ritalin in elementary school... and my parents said no... and they are both fine. Neither of them are addicted to methanphetamines... nor have any desire to be. They are both big time potheads... but what's worse.... ritalin or weed? Surely you can be a rational judge here...

Don't trust the school system. Don't trust the FDA. It's ALL about money. The sooner we realize this... the better off we will be.

 

I would have no way of answering that. A drug in itself is not bad or good. The way it is used, abused, or misused is what is important. Weed vs Stimulants? I can't say. Perhaps it is their way of self medicating, or maybe they just like weed. Who knows? Your parents had the right to decide, as long as they did the needed investigation, and it appears they did.

 

a good friend of mine who was diagnosed ADD back before it was common to do so has used pot for years. he says that it helps him focus. he's affected by ADD severely enough that he finds it difficult to follow a telphone conversation, though he is very social and very intelligent (has a masters in philosophy) Maybe marijuana can be used to self medicate? I have also heard of people self medicating or medicating their children with caffeine to treat mild adhd (not that I recommend it, but I have read about it)

Maggie, I'll definately pm you when i have some time. i'm desperate to talk to other parents of children with learning and social difficulties. thanks!

kathy