Hillbilly Habitat....

I've been reading about your crops, 'looks like you've got the self sufficiency thing goin' on, I'm envious of your growing season (ours is much shorter up here in the north, though a hoop house extends it a bit).

Maybe a little off topic, but any plans to go off the grid, or have you already?

BTW I was in the USAF, stationed in GA, 'didn't have a problem playing the game, I just kept my mouth shut, but it didn't suit me, it seems I have this problem with questioning authority...

 

we would love to go solar but unfortunately we are POOOOOOR ..lol

we are set up to where if need be we can go off grid and survive fine,just would have to do without the luxury of electricity. that really wouldnt be that big of a deal as the only thing we would miss would be the net and fridge,but meat can be canned and smoked so we could get by just fine..

 

We had a little discussion about it here, but when I went out and looked at the prices on the equipment, I came to the same conclusion you did. I was hoping maybe you found a cheaper way around it, lol.

If you can do without electricity altogether you've really got it goin' on, but you could easily get a small enough solar setup to power lights and a lap top if need be.

Solar heat's the biggest bang for your buck.

 

Solar is going to be my recovery. That's where the money and the jobs will be. If the swine flu doesn't kill us all off. And if it does... well that's still where the money will be.

 

IMO, the price is going to have to come way down before there is any real market for solar on a large scale.

everyone i know with solar systems in normal living conditions have 20 grand or more invested in their systems.

For many that kind of expense is just not viable. take us for example,it would take 15 years to recoup the cost of a set up here.by then much of the system would need to be upgraded or replaced,and thats not factoring in routine maintenance,repairs etc.

I just dont see it taking off as a booming industry unless there is some kind of major break through to drive the costs down..

 

Agreed, which is why I'm holding out.

My hope is that, as Zoomie suggests, this "green economy" that's supposedly emerging will create a larger demand for alternative energy generation equipment (solar, wind, hydro), which will, in turn, drive the cost down due to economies of scale.

The key then is timing. Unfortunately if you invest in it now you'll pay through the nose, but wait five or ten years and maybe it'll start to look feasible if we're not all extinct by then.

The government will never directly subsidize going off the grid, they're too entrenched with the power companies (plus they like to monitor your power use so they can bust you when your electric bill spikes from your grow lights). However, what you spend on solar panels is tax deductible, so that's a bonus.

 

The problems are multifold:

1. Intermittent service vs. lack of storage. The wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun doesn't shine all the time. I can store three days electrical power in my home but you can't do that for say... Chicago?

2. Transmission lines. The existing grid is not set up to handle solar/wind generated electricity. It's often a different animal. So it would take several new sets of high transmission lines to carry it to and around each zone. And while environmentalists will tell you that solar and wind power is NECESSARY they will fight tooth and nail to stop further high voltage transmission grids from criss-crossing the country. Ask anyone who fought Dominion Power in Virginia (and lost).

3. Money, as Billy pointed out. I listened to a program on NPR today about ranchers in South Dakota who optioned their properties to wind generation power companies. SD is famous for its wind and its lack of ability to grow anything but cattle. And the guy from the wind power company was like "Yup, this is a good place for a 1,000 tower site". 1,000 towers? That's a lot of electricity in the middle of nowhere and no way to carry it to the consumer or store it on a large scale. Billion dollar investment lying there while investors weep was the moral of the story. Bad risk.

4. Priorities. During peak hours of operation the operators of the existing power grid are required by law to purchase the least expensive electricity FIRST which means electricity made in dirty coal burning plants, then steam, then nuclear, then hydroelectric, then solar/wind. If the Fed was SERIOUS about going green they would change this law and then start CLOSING those dirty coal plants.

So as it stands, IF we get a storage system and IF we get a transmission system, and IF we give kajillions of dollars in cash and tax credits to contractors and landowners to build these systems, and IF we get Congress to make grid operators buy solar and wind first and blah blah blah blah we'll all be dead of the swine flu before it gets out of committee...

But I'm thinking positively. I'm thinking about giving seminars to people to teach them how to build their own solar and wind systems and storage systems, to convert most of the household stuff to 12VDC using junkyard parts and internet purchases and to adapt their lifestyle to a low power solar and wind household system. And then just say "Hey! Florida Power and Light? Baltimore Gas and Electric? Virginia Power? ConEd? PGE? Fuck you guys, we don't need you." The old "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" routine.

I mean, you'd pay $250 for a weekend seminar that would free you from ever paying a utility again wouldn't you? But since it's all floating around on the internet, and it's already free, I can't really charge for it, can I? But it will be fun to stick it to the man...

 

Good post, Zoomie, I hadn't considered the cost of transport, which manifests itself as equipment costs and inefficiency from voltage drops over the lines, which in turn increases with distance. But you're right, it's far easier to build a coal plant near Chicago than to transmit wind power from SD. For what it's worth a few years back I signed up for a "green" option with my power company in which 100% of my power comes from wind, solar, and hydro. It runs me around 7% more on my power bill (which I've more than compensated for by finding ways to use less power).

I know folks who work for the power company, and they're constantly railing about the crisis the grid is having as a result of the increasing demand for energy, so it's conceivable we'll see a time when our government and the power companies actually encourage us to get off the grid.

LOL, it takes our government forever to do anything, so it behooves us to pioneer the technology for ourselves, or at least learn more about it with an intent to implement it in the near future, like we're doing now, but green energy is quite the buzz these days, and like anything trendy, the first people to jump on the band wagon usually pay the most.

However, to put things in perspective, my retirement funds lost more value in the past year than a solar setup. I sure wish I'd invested in solar panels instead, then at least I'd have something to show for my investments.

There is a lot of information on the internet about the subject, but you need to do your homework and approach it carefully. A lot of it is marketing hype designed to sell you over priced equipment or worse yet, information you can get for free.

Sorry for the thread hijack, HHB, but I hope someone gets something out of it.

Power, like anything else, is best if produced locally.

 

The only good thing is that the IBEW says 50% of its membership will be retiring in the next 10 years. So a new, younger generation will be out there not only wiring up houses but operating the grid. Schools are popping up everywhere and I would highly recommend that anyone looking for a career but not wanting to go to college become an electrician. It's a fairly lucrative way to make a difference.

PS: I'm not sorry I helped hijack your thread. I'm GLAD I helped hijack your thread. I did it on purpose. I hope one of you reports me to the moderator of this forum because lately he's been acting like a total asshole.

 

hey i could care less what the reason for this thread popping up and hangin around every now and then is.

i would rather see it generate discussion than fall into the abyss of the archives..

dont get me started about the mods here,i would break a few forum guidelines..i hear the one that moderates this forum is a grumpy old asshole..

 

Only when he's out of Maker's Mark...