~HOMEMAKERS~ Has it EVOLVED????

dave and i were both raised by working moms. eventually, when my mother married my stepfather, she opted to stay home with my little bother and sister. i was 11 or 12. after my baby sister has been molested by her sitter's husband, mom said "to hell with this shit, no one is ever gonna take care of my kids the way i will." i have to tell you, the quality of upbringing my little bother and sister had with my mother staying home made all the difference in the world. if i didn't love them so much, i'd be writhing in bitter envy.

my mother had a job she loved, there's no doubt about it. our finances were great, eventually. but it just wasn't the same. no one loves you like your mama (unless you're mama is evil and wants to kill you or something.) but this isn't a gripe against working mothers. my mother was a WONDERFUL mom, but i got very little time with her, between her work and my two older brothers. i was loved and provided for, but thos little things that make life special weren't available. she was worn out. she was used up by the time she could get to me. i ended up making my own dinners, givin gmyself a bath and putting myself to bed by the time i was in kindergarten. it's got it's good and bad, but there's a reason i opted to stay at home and raise my own damned kids.

 

but you want a typical girlygirly female for a wife, arent they unable to cope on their own? you say women nowadays are too independent. surely were supposed to rely solely on our Men for all our satisfaction in life

theres nothing wrong with having preferences, but you want a girly woman who isnt too independent but will work on her own and be ok with you doing you rown thing. its going to be damn nea rimpossible for you to find such a girl, when you sound so damn unwilling to compromise on any of it

as for my boyfriend, i find it fucking hilarious that you are so insecure in your own sexuality that you have to poke fun at other men who are great with food, have to assume that becaues they can cook or bake or clean they must only be interested in men... its not as though they could break through your gender specific molds/stereotypes to do more with their lives, oh noooo, treating your girlfriend to an incredible meal or bakin gher favourite dessert definitely means the man in question is gay. obviously

 

what is so bad is that you want someone who works full -time and cooks and cleans because you would feel 'feminine' doing it.

I'm just saying look bud ya can't have it both ways. Most super feminine girls, the polite type you are saying you prefer would not be okay with you expecting them to leave their kids in daycare. You can't have your cake and eat it too. A woman who is ok with not staying at home is most likely not going to be the type of feminine and submissive girl you are looking. And I doubt after working all day she is going to come home and cook you dinner and do the dishes afterwards and clean the house. I know I sure as hell wouldn't feel like that or do that after working all day. Guys can't have it both ways...

 

same here. that is why I am soooo insistent on not working when I have kids or jumping into a career that I will not want to quit and end up bitter when I do. I never got to spend time with my mom and my dad was out of the picture and man that leaves you with crazy issues. I would never in a million years put another kid through that. I had a great childhood and am sooooo grateful to my family, but I can do better.

I have the total ability to get a great job and be financially independent and I have been emotionaly independent so I can do it if I have to. But do I want to do it?; no. That's why at 25 I still live at home. I love being taken care of because I missed that as a kid. I don't think she or anyone else owes that to me to try and heal me or whatever, but I think I owe it to my kids not to make them as issue driven as I am.

 

This got me thinking because I'm getting married next year.

What do I expect? A good meal, a clean house, clean laundry, etc. But here's what I DO NOT expect: I DO NOT expect her to do all these things by herself. I am willing to help her even when I feel tired because I know that she'll be tired as well (my future wife's a teacher). Now if she wants to quit teaching and concentrate on being a mom and homemaker, that's fine, but all she needs to do is ask for help on doing the housework and I'll do what I can. I don't consider it beneath me to do housework, although I am rather lazy. But if my wife needs my help I'll give it.

 

I would completley understand that statement if she were staying home, but if you're both working full-time why do you consider it 'helping her'? Especially since being a teacher is such a draining job.

 

well.... i can't say i wouldn't mind being a stay at home mom if the husband could provide everything we needed..... but knowing me i would probably get really sick of it and want to continue my music career.....so i don' tknow.... maybe someday

 

I don't understand your question. I know teaching is a draining job, which is why I'm willing to help with the housework.

 

let me make it clear for you:

because she is alredy working, and why shoudlnt be you doing all the stuff home too, and her "helping you" with it SOMETIMES? huh?!

this is so incredible that year 2007 men still take it as evident that home work thats for women and them they are relly nice if they "help" with it, give it a hand.. instead to see it as obvious that both are working so it is both responsability and job. it is so much like that everywhere that women working out side still have to do it all at home. thats realy sick!
And men dont even see it is soooooo wrong!
You are "willing" to help! WAW! what a hero! what about being willing to see the hypocrisy of it, and be willing to do it all, and let her be "willing to help" you instead?
food for the mind.

 

Oh, who cares about dinner, love. I would start with my dessert first and put her on the table. lol My home isn't as neat as it should be, but I have 3 floors to take care of on my own. You are right, not easy when you work too. Still not as messy as some I have been in. The only time your home should be spotless is when you are trying to sell it. Not saying to keep your home a mess, but if it is a little bit, who in the hell cares? You have to live in it.

 

Thats damn right!

and for the Musikero, and all men, waiting for the wife to ask you for help is nto the way to go and is problematic. their should be a plan of what to do what day, and if not you should do stuff on your own and not wait to be asked to, you are not a kid.
You see the dishes? wash it up. Clothes to be cleaned? put them in the washer ans dry them and pack them and iron what msut be and put them in the closets.
Same with cleaning the floor, and dust, and garbage, and cleaning the bathroom and toilet. You can see ti has to be done or paln on your own what day of the week you will have to do so.
just as she has to paln it on her own all the time. So why do you think you should be free from it and just wait for thenew mummy to tell you what to do?
You ve got 2 arms an 2 hands and a brain, use it.
You see there isnt enoughmmilk or paln what ot cook that day and tomorrow and oyu go buy whatever ingredients are required and if youdotn knwo how to cook, you do like her: you learn how to do so.

 

I agree that it is food for the mind. I'll have to digest all this before I get back to you.

Later...

 

In other words, be proactive and do what needs to be done instead of waiting to be asked. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

yes, thats the basic of good marriage, do so and you will have a happy one. and happy sex life as well.
Its like with sex in fact, if you are proactiv thats much better for her than if she has to ask you what to do all the time,.. kind of kill the interaction and surprise to beg for it..
Hmm, nice to see you got it right,. Thats very good.

 

Okay, now I understand Bella's question. You're both right. The surprising thing was I didn't see it was wrong and I always thought I was more progressive (I'm not sure if this is the right word) than a lot of the men in the area where I work. A lot of them really do expect their wives to do the housework. Not just the housework, ALL the work. And all these men do is sit in the house or hang out at the local sari-sari store and drink and gamble. Anyway, my point is, I thought I was better than that. I was being sincere in wanting to help my wife. What I didn't see was that I still have some of the old-fashioned mentality that says husband=breadwinner, wife=housekeeper. Thank you both for pointing this out. I can't say I found it pleasant reading your posts, but they were rather educational and humbling.

Peace to you and Bella

 

Thats cool, at least even if unpleasant to realise it, you did acknowledged it and see it.
the question is, why do men dont see it on their own? Because it si so much more comfy to just ignore the obvious.. if 2 guys live together and both work, they are not going to take as granted that one of them do it all, and stay home clening and cooking while the other go to the local bar and come back to eat..
but they do so when it is a women, their gf or wife, and it is call discrimination.
because we believe wrongly that we are so evoluatd and we are equal on sex, we deny to see all theose obviosu things who scream the opposit.
You cn see it and are open to it, but think at all the rest of men who just deny it even when told and just said thats chicks crap or feminist craps.
And working home isnt paid, and there is no vacations nor weekends, cause you got to cook at weekend and clean the kids and feed them, and evn worse weekedn means doing all the cores there wasnt time for during the wek meaning more workload..
And when you are old and pensioned, the women still work make coffee and breakfeast at the morning and clean house and make food and beds, and all, all her life til she died, while the retired husband just sit there and do his hobby.. and thats why often a guy is lost when his wfe die, cause he dont know how to cook an egg nor how the washer work nor how to clean and all, thoguth he spend 50 years near one who was doing so all the time, but he never spend hours in the kitchen at looking how she did to learn from her ever, nor ask how to use that washer.
She is the slave in the house no matter how one put it.
Even women who dont have work outside, do mcuh more work than one who had and dont have to do all the chores at home, so hell for those who do both.
1 hour cleaning is equivalent to 3 hours at the training center. So thats tell how much work it is.
When couples go on camping vacations, who do the cleaning and all? still the wife..
she got no vacations, it will be like you taking your work homw and on vacation and having to work on weekend too.
People are so used to it that they dont even think about it, its just there, thats the usual, and therefor thats completely oversee.
Same with babies, she is the one, and thats unfair. women live in a world of unjustice and cant do a thing about it or so little, that they have to accept it and learn to live with it if they dont want to live in solitude or feelign abused all the time and like hell.
Those are facts. they do with it and make the most out of it, cause they dont have a real choice about it. Until men awake and becoem more aware and sensible and just, liek you just did, there will be no break for women.

 

well, musikero, i think you've done really amazing. i think you graduated through one of the biggest, most important lessons men have to learn about women, and it took you no time at all. clever human.

 

a perfect joke, related to what lorna is saying, and to lighten the mood a little:

BBQ Rules

We are about to enter the summer and BBQ season. Therefore it is
important to refresh your memory on the etiquette of this sublime
outdoor cooking activity, as it's the only type of cooking a 'real' man
will do, probably because there is an element of danger involved.

When a man volunteers to do the BBQ the following chain of events are
put into motion:

Routine...
(1) The woman buys the food.
(2) The woman makes the salad, prepares the vegetables, and makes
dessert.
(3) The woman prepares the meat for cooking, places it on a tray along
with the necessary cooking utensils and sauces, and takes it to the man
who is lounging beside the grill - beer in hand.

Here comes the important part:
(4) THE MAN PLACES THE MEAT ON THE GRILL.

More routine....
(5) The woman goes inside to organize the plates and cutlery.
(6) The woman comes out to tell the man that the meat is burning. He
thanks her and asks if she will bring another beer while he deals with
the situation.

Important again:
(7) THE MAN TAKES THE MEAT OFF THE GRILL AND HANDS IT
TO THE WOMAN.

More routine....
(8) The woman prepares the plates, salad, bread, utensils, napkins,
sauces, and brings them to the table.
(9) After eating, the woman clears the table and does the dishes.

And most important of all:
(10) Everyone PRAISES and THANKS HIM for his cooking efforts.
(11) The man asks the woman how she enjoyed 'her night off.' And, upon
seeing her annoyed reaction, concludes that there's just no pleasing
some women....

 

My mother worked part-time after I was born, midnight shift at the hospital as a nurse, but since I was sleeping, I didn't know any better. She was always there for me during the day, so it was as if she were a stay-at-home mother. She confessed she would have rather been home full-time, but my father didn't want her to stay home, he was worried they wouldn't be able to make it financially, which, with my mother's spending habits, was understandable.

My husband, his mother didn't work at all.

 

My husband and I have joint accounts, joint credit cards, all of that. He says the money he makes is just as much mine as his, that I work just as hard as he does, if not more so, and that I deserve every penny.

And of course I would say "the" kids, he and I are the parents, they're not just MINE, they're his as well. I certainly didn't make them on my own.