Indeed. But my point in posting the link at the start of this thread was to remind people of exactly what they're contributing to when they help to perpetuate homophobia. Christians can't just wash their hands of the problem, pretending that branding homosexuality as a sin exists in some form of social vacuum where it doesn't contribute towards acts of homophobic hatred and violence.
yeah, I think that is about the brand of christian as well seeing as not all christians are homophobes in the same way that not all chavs are homophobes. I'd also question how homophobia became a part of religion that people are willing to hold on to whilst admitting that a lot of the rest of it is silly. Yeah it is personal choice but then that could well stem back to the assult on masculinity etc. which seems to be a basis for most homophobia. So it's possible that the church merely supports homophobia rather than producing it. I'm not saying it's acceptable, just that it might well be an effect rather than a cause. Anyway, it's all only thoughts and not even fully formed as yet, just a little idea bouncing round my head
Sometimes I wonder if people actually read my posts. If you did, you'd have noticed that I was very aware that many christians do not view homosexuality as a sin. You'd also have noticed that I've actually used this to illustrate the argument that being a christian does not inherently require that you view homosexuality as a sin. Uhhhhh.... huh? Last time I checked, christians still believe plenty of things that could be labelled as 'silly'. Dude, this is apologist bullshit. That's like saying that the nazi party weren't responsible for racism! Sure, they were an effect rather than a cause, but did that make it any better, and did it alter the fact that they were perpetuating racism?
Yeah I read it, just thought it was a good point and as it was in a different thread it should be mentioned in here . Like I said, it was something that just popped into my head rather than a fully formed opinion. Something I'll think on for a bit but I'm not denying that the church is a part of the mechanism of homophobia, nor am I denying that it perpetuates homophobia, just wondering where homophobia became a religious belief and why people still put up with it as it seems to me that sexual prefferance has nothing to do with religion.
That's fine, but in context you made it sound as though you thought I was accusing all christians of being homophobic. I wasn't. I think the question should be a bit broader. It's really more about where sexuality got confused with morality.
Sorry squire, wasn't the intention. Well we could go back to quoting Leviticus here as was done on the christians and fundamentalism thread but I think that the roots of homophobia go deeper than organised religion. The Greeks (I think) were very open to homosexuals and bisexuals but I'm not at all sure about the rest of the world at that sort of time, does anyone know of a time homosexuality was commonly accepted as being perfectly normal?
Ummm... yeah, that was my point. Hence my saying that the question was not when homophobia became a religious belief, but rather when it became a moral belief. There's no definitive answer to that question. It's varied according the prevailing morality of the day, and according to the specific culture in question.
Bugman banned for being a flamer, a troll, posting repeatedly off topic, gross numbers of personal attacks and generally being a bellend....
I think the reason alot of men feel uncomfortable around homosexuals is this inbuilt myth that every homosexual is mad after every man on the planet. I'm very much a "live and let live" type of person and know some gay people and am fine with that but every no and again there might be someone around who is gay that I don't know and I can feel slighty uncomfortable, I dunno where it comes from I think it's conditioned from the first point in my post I don't know.
Well I read an article a while back in a paper about why certain things disgust people which was written by a scientist. Apparantly according to this scientist it is an extension of feeling disgusted when we eat or drink something which tastes bad. We react in a disgusted way to bad tasting food and drink as an ancient defence against being poisoned. Disgust at things like homosexuality is when something pollutes our values. It is as if our values about life have been contaminated and we react in the same way as if we had taken food which was contaminated because the same area of the brain is involved in both reactions. So a prehistoric part of the brain which evolved to protect us from being poisoned is responsible for homophobia and disgust at many other things we see. Your idea that it is social conditioning ignores the fact that where did homophobia begin. It had to begin with someone who hadn't been socially conditioned and so must have a biological origin to begin with.
I think the reference was to homophobia being socially conditioned not homosexuality itself. I maybe wrong Love Clairexxx
I don't quite understand the science, but why would some people be disgusted by homos and others not? I mean, I know loads of guys, gay and straight, who are completely comfortable around homosexuals, even when they're getting all mushy and gross. If it's just a matter of your morals, then it's obvious that some have less of a moral objection to faggots than others, but we still have the same problem: why are some people morally opposed to homosexualism and others not?
maybe it's just down to a type of person. You know the type that think everyone should be like them or the type that stick there nose into other peoples business? I see them as unhappy people with not enough positive things to occupy their time. I know this sounds a bit harsh, but so is hating / hurting gay people so Love Clairexxx
It's just a thing I've never really got. I don't understand what could be so abhorent about any lifestyle/race/religion/whatever that you'd feel obliged to go out and beat people up for it.
I totally get that... The only thing that could possibly get me to beat someone is if I saw them beating someone else... But then thats why we're posting on here and not another forum I guess
If someone's actually harming others, it's obviously different. I'd have no qualms about beating up a rapist, if I could actually throw a punch and not get slapped around like a kid. But it requires a really warped mentality to believe guys who prefer sex with each other are on a par with guys who force people to have sex with them.
