How does a man distinguish himself as a man?

all u gotta do is look at my age to know i know that, but we grew up in a different space in time...we weren't repressed in our pursuit of self as much back then. i'd hate to be a young man trying to make his way nowadays, the basics just aren't as readily available.

 

I'm also glad that I came up during those years. I take hope from the fact that people growing up in these weird times are used to it. They will turn out the best that they can. Trying to be a good person is valued.

 

I can only make comment on my experience. I talk to some younger males waiting at the bus stop and in the bus. Some have set goals like going to a trade school and learning auto mechanics. Some are out there making there ways selling pot, looking for parttime under the table work and trying to find the next girl to lay. I really don't know which way is more 'macho'. If I apply the goals and lifestyle to females, ( without having talked to them), I really believe that their lifestyles and goals parallel young men. Also the physical weakness thing mentioned earlier is not always the case, there are lots of women who are fully capable with their physical strength to handle what people thnk of as male jobs. I remember one years ago that surprized me and went out picking oysters early in the morn with dozens of males in raingear around.
So for me ....defining a more male attitude, lifestyle and personality is not clear. There are fish processing workers here that cuss with the best of them and are hard as nails both on the job and off, I drank beer with them. What I may be sharing is the differance between a rural area girl and a city girl although I think city girls are tought too. I also don't think being kind to people and animals is a trait leaning towards feminity. I have been kind and it is not a weakness although many people mistake it for one. First hand knowledge of this is my own reputation. Both civilians and cops have this notion I am a very dangerous person. All have done here is be nothing but kind and even stepped in between people fighting, some kids, and broken it up. I have no idea why the authorities come here thnking I am going to shoot them. I have no idea why I am held in respect by kids that are young, a kind of respect I don't really care for...the fear variety. I understand it is the fear variety, some kids showed respect to my face and stole behind my back, all they had to do is ask me for something.
Trying now to focus on what defines maleness and not femaleness.
Y'all got me boondoggled, my best traits come from both my mom and dad, guess you could say accepting what people call female traits in myself is just as important as what my dad taught me.

One thing for sure is when I get angry I look for an underlying fear that is hidden that started it.

peace
Honor

 

ok well

I am a trained nurse
I have long hair and wear make up
I dress in clothes that are androgenous
I am a witch
most of my female friend relate to me like a girl
I wear perfume not aftershave
I want to advance my 'caring' career
I am attracted to masculine men

most people on here thought I was a women until i came out as a man, and I never lied I never cliamed to be a womem.
and the crucial thing is I love being who I am, I like my body as a man and don't want to change it.
so I am some one that has never conformed to gender sterotypes doe sthat make me any less of a man?
S

 

i have had friends and acquaintances of all "persuasions" so i can agree with the gist of your post, Samhain.

something a gay dude said has always stuck with me: "being gay doesn't mean i'm a fairy or a bad person. i'm a man with a sexual & emotional attraction to other men."

this topic strikes me as more about ethics, as MikeE keeps trying to point out. we want/need/have to use gender-specific labels, but to me "man" means "male with strong morals" and "woman" means "female with strong morals." from what i recall of the guy i was talking about, he was a man.

just mHo...

 

I think it woud be interesting for a hetrasexual man to post and say that he is similar to me the difference is he's sexually attractive to women
S

 

i said i agree with your message...i'm not quite sure what you meant to say.

i'm hetero, yes, i'm attracted to women, no doubt in my little mind.

i dress/appear/act feminine? hardly, but i don't judge, either.
(why'd i feel such a strong need to clear that up? i thought i was over that kinda crap)

 

you miss understood me, i said I think it would be interesting for a straight guy who breaks the gender sterotypes to post on this thread, mainly because I think its more of a statement really. people generally expect what I have said if it comes from a gay man.
so I replyed to your post, but the content wasn't directed at you.
S

 

joke's on me, Samhain!!

i just mis-read the words, thanks for clearing that up.

hehe, my reaction was a perfect illustration for this topic.

 

ya think? i think we're still on a course of increased in-equality. but, insane-one, i agree that things will eventually get there.

 

I establish my manhood mainly by growing hair on new parts of my body as I age - ears, back, etc. Not that I have much say in the matter. Also, I have a penis.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what defines "Manhood" as something separate from just "Personhood".

 

this board moves so fast that i'm not gonna try to edit a previous post...

something else that comes to mind is the whole "viva la differance" thingy...if we ever evolve to the point where sex is between two identical persons with different genitalia, then i got the feeling people are going to start reading in bed more.

some things weren't meant to be messed with. imo, it's perfectly cool to be social/economic/whatever equals, but a few things about gender are downright visceral in nature.

i'm betting the "metro" isn't near as good a roll in the hay, but that's just me being a typical "man" :X

 

only because it leaves the men in my life at loose ends and ashamed of their natural inclinations. because the men in my life have been forced to accept some stereotypical ideal of who society expects them to be and this makes them inflexible and afraid of being who they are deep down inside. they don't have the satisfaction and security that someone like samhain has, who is so thoroughly accepting of who he is that he puts the boys to shame. samhain went through his rites to manhood by facing up to the fact that he's not who society would classically dictate to him who he should me. we have no rites of passage any more, they're considered old fashioned and sexist. however, every time a woman starts her period or buys her first bra, she's passing through her personal rite to adulthood and being cheered for it by her mother. what do we give our boys? what point in time or achievement can they use to define their manhood, their adulthood? anything at all? what activities have we left for men to pursue besides videogames and fantasy football that men can use to feel the glory of their seperate, physically defined and inclinations?

 

ok, insane-dude, show me where i said we weren't making progress. now, show me how the current situation is moving in the direction of equality.

but, being the genuine hippy i am, i believe in the goodness-of-man, tho that outlook can sure be challenged at times. so, i say i agree that we'll eventually get there.

now...i've only been here a coupla days. i may be new here, but i'm no noob. you can taunt me until that clownface turns blue, but i won't let you draw me into any more sub-threads. i know my way around messageboards, & that means i know how to set my options.

welcome to the white zone, sonny.

 

Post-pubescent with a Y chromosome.

 

oops, my bad, shane. i mis-read.

 

yeah, but, i think it's spiritually deadening if that's all they have. i've watched two brothers keep notching their bedposts and getting nothing but brief physical enjoyment and MAYBE a little "haha, i won" from it. thankfully the both have them have found their place in fatherhood, to beautiful little girls, which i consider a little instant karma. but i have to confess, they left a litter of vicious and angry women behind them.

 

well, yes, it was profound. it was a major step, and came with a whole new set of warnings and lessons. and i find your belief that it's simply about showing superiority over someone too simplistic, and perhaps a sign of an inferiority complex. a rite of passage is for PERSONAL growth, PERSONAL steps, a time to let go of the past and keep only the lessons before setting on towards the next set of lessons. we are all somewhat alike in the big picture, but infinitely different as well. but somewhere along the line we all got the idea that being different was bad, instead of valuable in it's own right.

 

oooo. lol. you've moved to the "respond to each individual line of a quote" phase of your irritation. this is funny. at any rate, your own interpretation of "status" is once again falling into your immature and over-simplistic viewpoint. it is not just a word referring to superiority or inferiority to other people. not to mention your need to lean heavily on the very simplistic definitions of things that have been profoundly valuable to all people throughout the ages. see, i can quote from the dictionary, too:rite of passage 

1. Anthropology. a ceremony performed to facilitate or mark a person's change of status upon any of several highly important occasions, as at the onset of puberty or upon entry into marriage or into a clan.
2. any important act or event that serves to mark a passage from one stage of life to another.

everything is a fight to you. it's so important for you to win every little discussion, even when winning is entirely moot. you see yourself as some folk-hero deliverer of truth, complete with logo. when really you're just another antagonistic prick who doesn't have to take responsibility for the hurt you cause with your petty attacks on anyone you've arbitrarily decided to dislike. after all, you'd be the first to list your defects, right? so you've got every right to attack everyone else's. see, you get to be an armchair psychologist, so do i.

 

The white zone... that sounded kinda racist... why can't it be the rainbow zone?... you got somethin against the other colors?... that one of your white supremisy things?... do you think you're better than black people so you've got your own zone?... tisk tisk... maybe we haven't come as far as I thought...
quoted from insane jester........................

we don't have a white zone on the west coast, we have a yellow zone for loading and unloading Chinese looking people and oriental stuff including take out food....take out anyone?