How Many Libertarians on this Board Were Born Into Poverty?

Indie

I think that you are so ideologically blinkered that you are unable to think rationally or reasonably, and that is why you seem so incapable of forming rational or reasonable arguments to back up your views.

What comes across is a kind of seething rage that anyone should have views so different from yours and a seemingly rather bizarre belief that any opposition must be part of some type of communist conspiracy.

What is worse - this inability to think rationally seems to have led you into seeing the deeply unreasonable as legitimate means to you ideological ends, I am talking of your seeming willingness to use the abuse of power and the torture of individuals as a way of bringing about you ideological goals.

You seem to find nothing wrong with the idea of persecuting dissidents ‘reforming’ an electoral system so that it would be biased toward your ideology and you find the idea of having children forcibly removed from their parents, and large numbers of people being sterilized against their will, as fine.

You are starting to come across as one of those blind followers of Chairman Mao’s Cultural Revolution, were ideology has taken the place of thought.

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I'd make taxes more like under your buddy eisenhower, regulate the market properly, slash wasted money like the DEA, I would end the war on drugs and middle east wars, I would concentrate on making the armed services as professional and high quality as possible, working to end problems like military rape (of those in and outside the military) and the culture of silence that has repeatedly allowed and masked war crimes. I would cut "homeland security" funding to all these towns like mine that have NOTHING to do with homeland security, we have cameras on everything and the rural cops have tanks and riot shields, that shits EXPENSIVE and doesn't belong here. I'd never THINK of bailing out a company taking peoples houses, i'd bail out the people with the houses and dissolve the company trying to take their houses.

I could go on for a long time. I would bring sound regulation, education, and social justice, and use them to fix the budget.

 

as regards % of gdp, this is not a record deficit, and we've recovered from them before

without killing the poor, i might add

america's credit rating is still aaa

so, no, i don't see it as a problem, or i should say, not the problem

 

The person who earned the wealth should have exclusive rights to share it as he/she sees fit.

And in my view government should get out of the way and allow jobs to be created. It is the ideas of individuals that creates jobs, and if a demand exists or can be created then jobs are produced. Competition adjusts prices to what consumers will accept. Government regulations and unions increase the costs of doing business which sometimes forces production to move abroad.

You really should be able to figure out the answers yourself, but you worry too much about how much money others have and aren't sharing as you feel they should.

You don't reduce the influence of wealth over government by making the government more powerful, you only enhance it and reduce or eliminate the less affluent citizens from having any influence. Politicians primary objective is to be reelected which takes money to fund their reelection campaigns, and that funding is provided by those with wealth who in turn like to get their monies worth for what they paid for.

I'm uncertain of what you're talking about, what infrastructure and where?

About all that is accomplished is upward mobility is limited for those in the middle class, and retention or an increase of those who are poor.[/quote]
Can you back this up? [/QUOTE]

Upward mobility exists at all levels. The poor can move up just as the the middle class can. The rich can move down, just as the middle class can, and if you're at the bottom you have no way to go except up, unless you wish to stay there.

Tax the evil rich? Demand higher wages and benefits than what the job is worth? All this only increases the cost of living which makes upward mobility more difficult for both the poor and the middle classes, while allowing the wealthy to become even more wealthy.

And the taxes they pay are a cost of doing business which in the end is passed on to the consumers of their products and/or services. Sort of like renting a house in order to avoid paying property taxes. When the property owner sees an increase in his/her property taxes they just increase the rent.

Back up "nothing is too big to fail"? What is too big to fail?

Where did the idea that government can live beyond it's means perpetually yet remain sound come from? Unpaid, and rapidly increasing debt is the greatest crisis looming, and if unattended will eventually bring even a so called wealthy nation to its knees.

Most everyone I went to school with who did not go further than high school or in some cases did not even finish, have done well. And some who went on to college did not do any better. A lot depends on the individuals.

You seem to feel that money solves most problems and I see no evidence that increased education spending, greater welfare assistance, and financial aid has done more than increase the number who depend upon it.

Would you say that disadvantage is then due to 'good behavior' or 'superior' decisions? I only see disadvantage as a deterrent one has to exert effort to overcome.

You have a problem with Marxism?

 

Actually, I've only offered suggestions which I thought might appeal to you. I would be quite happy for government to no more power than the Constitution provides it, and for people to be left to make their own decisions leading to individual success or failure.

 

We're looking at over $1000 per month per man woman and child in government spending going forward, and not one cent of that is going toward reducing the debt.

 

well, golly, i should feel cheated since i'm certainly not getting my share

 

I guess the warnings in the Wall Street Journal were wrong. Inflation should help increase the gdp so that should hold the deficit percentage down somewhat.

 

don't know when the warnings were published, but you should know that the wall street journal has been bought by political partisans and is no longer to be trusted

 

'blaming ourselves'...you have to assume that we are 'separate' from these others. we are-only to a small extent. my skin doesn't take in the next person, but what happens to them, also may happen to me....small things, like eating, drinking....these are 'personal', and separate.

large things, like nuclear fallout, societal upheaval, depression of an economic system...these will affect everyone to some degree...hence, 'blaming ourselves'. we-collectively-have tolerated these jerks and their 'leadership'. have i done EVERYTHING that i could have to change it. no...self preservation prevents me. i came close to being fired as a federal employee because i refused orders to give contractors money they did not deserve (and that is an opinion, so...you have to decide what you think of it). could i have called new york times? washington post? what should i have done? i was not going to initiate violence; i'm not going to renounce my citizenship, because i love the Constitution. i'm not going to join the Internationale...because i think they are the same as the lying sacks of shit we have now...they just want to rule.

i was also a union negotiator...the union and management banded together to get me to resign my post. i finally did...the pressure these idiots command is massive...the bullshit in wisconsin is 'arranged' for public consumption...the union leaders have their thieving hands in someone's pockets, or vice versa, i would bet. the teachers will get the fucking, as will some of the people involved in supporting the loss of collective bargaining. the taxpayers will get the worst fucking of all...and i blame them all for their continued support of the charade being played out.

i saw people who went somewhat further have their marriages and their careers ruined.

therefore, i pass this blame with a large loop....it belongs to each and every one of us who is a u.s. citizen. thereby, no motherfucker can escape it. if someone tries to tell me they don't believe in the system, i ask them 'who did you vote for last election?'...invariably, they tell me someone from one of the parties...and i tell them 'you are not part of the solution; you are part of the problem.'. after that, most will not speak to me....this is the mindset we have to change...the stick the head in the sand and act like everything is ok....it sure as fuck is not ok. but some of the ideas floating around will be even worse...
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yes...some of us have worked very hard. some of us have been at risk...but we also are to blame in my opinion. because we have not found the way to make logical sense to those who don't see the charade so as to get them to be against the lying and power mongering.

i will also say this...i have tried numerous times to encourage people to watch 'the ascent of money'. i bet 1 out of a 1,000 has done so. the ones who have are so shocked, i think, that perhaps they cannot act afterwards anyway...to understand the 'shell game' going on with 'money' is just shocking...really. we simply cannot force feed the masses. the liars will, though. they give them ipads, coca cola, unchecked breeding, sex on the internet, game and 'reality' shows...and most accept this pablum, and go on voting as desired. religion is not the opiate of the masses; carbohydrates, violence charged entertainment, sex and drugs are the opiates of the masses...and unmeant promises from liars in suits. everyone would like to believe their most loved illusions...'life is a storybook', so to speak. the masses get the governments they deserve...and, since we are not separate from them, we do as well. it would be nice to have a separate identity, but it is impossible. we are all to blame.

 

The warnings have been published several times, and in various publications this year. But if you really are looking for trustworthy information, look to those who make money by trading currencies, and those who purchase the debt of the U.S. The only thing that keeps the U.S. dollar viable for the long term is the fact that U.S. citizens are held accountable to back it.
So far fiscal year 2011 has cost us over $191 billion in debt interest, and we're losing over a trillion dollars every three years just to interest on a continually increasing debt. I guess as long as the younger generation can be manipulated into accepting spending money they don't have to get whatever they want, it makes economic sense as long as they can count on not being around when some future generation discovers that past borrowing has created debt in which they can not possibly continue to pay the interest on. Get what you can while you can.

 

It would sound like the only solution to absolve ones self from blame would to be to resort to violence as the only means by which corrective action could be accomplished. Obviously the democratic process of voting to bring about change results only in a necessity to accept blame for each elected regimes errors. Sometimes all you can do is voice an opinion, and as we are each individuals first, right or wrong we seldom have the power to make ourselves heard. That is most often placed in the hands of others who once they assume power take our power totally away.

 

You got your share and more. Maybe it went into paving a highway in California or New York, its your own fault if you don't use it. Just wondering, did you and each family member pay their fair share?

 

You quoted my answer to how to reduce the debt, and said this crap about 1k a month per person. SO?

Exactly my point. I would make people fairly accountable for lowering it as fast as possible without undue strain on the population, and I would TOTALLY slash the programs taking up the money, unless it's a program that exists solely to defend the liberty of the people. (education and general human betterence included, those are highly relevant to liberty)

Also, I would not end border screening, but I would PROBABLY become easy on who could get into the country. If you legalize "vice", there is no criminal underworld or market to worry about, and you can let people into your country much more freely. And if you're not blowing up the middle east, then you don't have to worry about unfriendly peoples from over there. I WOULD require assimilation classes, including that people swear to uphold the constitution (including seperation of church and state, etc.... and not by saying a phony ass pledge with "under god" in it) learn english, etc. (of course, they may speak what they wish, but they must be ABLE to speak english to move here)

So yeah. Vote RooRshack, I'll fix shit.

 

i don't have a thousand dollars, nor does my wife - perhaps the cats have a stash somewhere . . .

 

i do NOT believe that there is a solution to escape 'blame'. if you want to escape blame, then you have to let go of blaming...that is the only solution, and i have not met anyone yet who can actually do 'not blaming' for any length of time. i myself am an expert at blaming....i have ceased to even attempt to not blame...every swingin' dick and set of flopping boobies has part of the blame. are these people who take our power 'us'? yes...they are just like us. they crave power, like 'highlander', and cut off our figurative heads to gain it...consigning us to the death of obscurity and the frustration of lameness, or to hide in fantasy or intoxication.

the best i can do is to vote for candidates who come closest to my own views. then again, as a young lady pointed out in another thread, there is 'the electoral college', which negates most of my votes. thusly, i am disenfranchised from any real participation in my government...which is taxation without representation...the kings have returned, except they cloak themselves in the garb of former patriots, and mouth 'what is hip' in this century.

therefore, we are left to these ends....ranting uselessly...pallidly..ineffectually... on the digital internet media like monkeys in trees as a leopard walks beneath....without even any fruit or feces to throw at the leopard. evolution? brilliant mind of man? bah...bullshit. fucking dumbass apes...all of us...fighting among ourselves over issues that are so small as to not even exist in truth, instead of looking at where our real problems lie...not even enough common sense to know we are dumb apes...monkeys are more intelligent than humans. they are governed locally!

wooohooo! waaahaaa! wooohaaah!

*throws feces at senator*

*leg irons are clapped on...put in cell with Bradley Manning*

 

Just providing a fact. Too much, too little, or just right?

I'm with you 100% on the "solely to defend the liberty of the people", but then you go on to add what can only be described as providing things which in themselves have nothing to do with liberty. Liberty is simply put "Freedom from restraint".

I wasn't aware of "separation of church and state" being in the Constitution. Living overseas I have to speak several languages, and adhere to various laws that I may disagree with, but that's a part of what I chose to accept in order to reside where I do legally. If I enter a country illegally (undocumented) then that country would have a right to expel me, temporarily or permanently as they wish.

I'll wait to see who's running for office and vote for whoever opposes the Democrat candidate. I'm just hoping the Republican party doesn't try and run another Left wing candidate.

 

That's what banks are for. I think your cats are exempt from taxes, under present laws.

 

What does the 10th amendment say?

 

there is no mention of 'separation of church and state' in the Constitution. the whole furor of this
'wording' (or concept, if one prefers...i understand clearly why...people left the dictatorship of the religious establishment to have religious freedom, not wanting to live in a theocracy as was in england-and perhaps in other parts of europe) occurred from a comment by Tommie Jefferson, which was later referenced in a supreme court 'commentary' is my understanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

i watched a hilarious performance by steve martin last night on that halfwit dave's show...martin sang 'atheists don't have no songs'...this is true. someone needs to write atheists a decent hymn or theme song. having no proprietary music sucks. however, at least they are not burned at the stake here....or dunked as heretics.

i suppose i might also query, if we are not, as omamba says, a 'christian nation', why are we providing all this foreign humanitarian aid? fuck 'em. feed our own people. these humanists...do they really purport to say that their humanism is not based on christian or at least religious philisophy? what does our government consider the massive amounts of foreign humanitarian aid? a good will gesture, designed to let us hire their people as offshore workers so as to allow us to abuse them in working conditions for cheap products? or does the money disappear in warlords hands, like somalia or haiti? if we are so irreligious, why all this money, troops, state deparment flunkies...giving 'aid'? obomba speak with forked tongue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

yes...so, do we have that in the u.s.? who is to blame? not the goddam monkeys, for sure. i want to blame Wa's cats...but i don't want to upset Wa. when the fucking feral government conditions its 'funding assistance' on certain compliances, do we have local control, or is that a form of dictatorship, wherein our own feral tax money is used to bribe/coerce our local officials to adhere to the instructions and principles of those in wawawa d.c.? i submit that the use of monetary means to coerce behaviour is only a step or so away from electric shock to the genitalia...but a lot less ugly in appearance, and perhaps may use less energy...go green, baby! no wonder the motherfuckers did not want the Articles of Confederation to stand...as well, the single standard for 'money' really has helped 'commerce' alright...i heard they jailed another guy in vegas who was setting up his own 'money'. feds don't like competition, do they?

*goes back to cell with Brad Manning*