Humans Are Cancer

disproportionate to what? our numbers? our intelligence potential? our size? our lifeform type? i'm sorry but i have to disagree.

what about beavers? damming up those rivers and just messing everything up!

or termites! always ruining other creatures' homes!

doesn't that sound silly? well so does saying humans are, considering we are, as i said before, the only species on earth that actually notices its impact on the environment and has concerned members who are working toward change.

don't get me wrong. i'm an environmentalist, a stauch one at that. i've studied environmental science heavily and will be attending law school to study environmental law and actually work toward fixing these problems.

but i think it's a very "i've-been-watching-the-matrix-movie-too-much" attitude to say humans are a parasite and a cancer.

it is imperitive that change is made. but exactly how is it helpful to call people, the very people whom you want to help you, a parasitic cancer? you're walking into paul ehrlich territory there, and making the movement look, to put it simply, stupid. beyond the fact that the exageration is silly, even in the opinion of an extremely concerned environmentalist, it just lacks logic to insult the people you are petitioning.

 

Beaver dams are a benefit, it silts the area, as well as opens land for new growth, creates habitat, etc. Anyways, the dams only last a few years.

Termites mostly just destroy OUR homes, and when they're in tree holes, it's food for the animal inhabitants. Those homes are never long term ones anyways.

Humans, though, consume out of proportion to our need. Do we need huge houses that need so much wood to build? Houses that cost so much more to heat, when a wigwam is just as warm? All our cars, because we're too lazy to walk? Computers because we're too lazy to think? So much of what we do is ridiculously unnecessary, even if it is convenient. No, not all progress is bad, but we aren't progressing when our inventions destroy the very world we live in. Since we are aware of our actions and consequences, we are STUPID to continue down this road.

Anyways, it's not really people themselves that are cancer, it's our form of civilization. This is what needs to be changed.

 

i just disagree. humans are incomparable to other species, and talk of "disproportionate" is hardly quantifiable - and yes, of COURSE beavers and termites have benefits. but so do humans. and if you can't admit that, you're never going to get far in an environmental debate

 

True, but I'd say the bad outweighs the good. I don't even think that can be denied.

 

You've studied environmental science? Right. I don't think you would make such an ignorant statement as "Beaver dams mess everything up." Or termites. These are keystone species that provide important habitat to many other species by creating wetlands. They increase biodiversity.

Does the destruction humans cause help any other animals? We have altered the earth immensely and it has only been harmful. You really can't say that of any other species.

 

Well, admittedly, cattle, horses, dogs, cats, rats, mice, goats, sheep, etc have all benefitted. So have wheat, barley, corn, rice, potatos, and all our other crops.

Still, we are drastically reducing biodiversity and ecological stability worldwide, so in the main, I agree with you.

 

In this I am presented with a dilemna of sorts. Most of that surrounds the word 'we'. I believe that there is a definable difference between various humans. Jivre makes an all too important point in the photo collages(though I wonder why dude has a big black box over his package, and lady does not?) Could it be that in the context of an analogy between human and pathogen that some of us are actually antibodies. Many of us are carcinogenic while others are anti-oxidants, etc.. ? I believe that many times I go out of my way towards a creative rather than destructive existance. In a few cases this has made me unpopular amongst other humans because sometimes it involves simply speaking the truth. Many times it's simply because it requires simplifying my own existance.

There are times when I have absolutely felt like an alien visitor to this planet. Some may be able to relate to this, some may simply scorn and guffaw. I often wonder and wish that we had taken the many opportunites 'we' have had to follow a different course. I often wonder what the future holds for us in the many different endeavors of various humans. What of something like nanotechnology or fusion? These are things which humans are currently exploring. It's the big what if...? Suppose we can create a digestible protein from the ground up through tiny little robots. Suppose we can use advanced science to repair the environment, our rock hurtling through space. Suppose we could begin to communicate beyond mere words and more through our common bonds.

Perhaps there is a distinction to be made between various humans. Maybe we are seeing the chaos and conflict that happens on a cellular level when necrosis approaches on a much larger scale. I have often thought about the entirety of the organism, not a seperation of humans from the body of the whole. This happens when you take the view from a much larger picture. Perhaps those humans who feel it approaching and feel within themself some sort of power to prevent it should do so.

 

It's easy to destroy things through ignorance. It is harder to fix them when you are ignorant. And we are. We don't know enough about the Earth and her workings to use science to fix her, not really. Right now, the best we can do is let her repair herself, and that would be done in two related ways: ceace the ruinous activities, and stop interfering with her ability to fix herself.

I'd like you to expand on what you wrote in the second part of the above quote, it sounds interesting but I'm not sure I follow.

 

apparently you are not familiar with sarcasm, or the use of hyperbole. that's unfortunate for you, because it takes all the wit out of my remarks and makes you appear uneducated.

i was comparing the fact that other species also alter their environments, and sometimes these changes have farther reaching effects on the environment and other species. my exageration parallels the exageration that humans are a parasite.

my point is that it's incomparable to talk about humans as though they were just another species - our capacities and abilities are totally incomparable. but anyway, you guys are pretty set on this humans-are-parasites-business, so continue, we'll see how far THAT gets the environmental movement. maybe my years of studying environmental science at my university and upcoming study of environmental law just give me a perspective beyond "humans suck" - or well maybe you're right, i've neeeeeeeeever studied the environment. "right."

 

When I say do something about it, it's on a personal level. Everyday choices. I know that I certainly am not going to go out tomorrow and just halt all the destructive actions. That's very self aggrandizing to believe I could do that. But, later today when I go to the grocery store, I'll choose to ride a bike there and carry my own satchel to store the food that I buy. I'll carefully choose what I buy based upon where that food came from, what it has in it. Later I'm building a fire. The wood comes from a tree that was struck by lightning, the kindling was the surrounding vines etc.. that grew up over it. Lo and behold when I cleared it out, there were little flowers trying to poke their head through, now they're growing up full and the birds have been feasting on insects they found there. I won't use any plastic or gasoline to start the fire. Later after it burns down I'll probably roast some homegrown green peppers and eat them. Somewhere in there I plan on watering the houseplants and reading part of a book. I use me because I really don't know what anyone else might be doing today but I'm pretty sure that other humans will be making similar choices at the same time. On my own little path, I'm singular but in the larger perspective I'm simply moving as a part of the whole.

I don't understand why a person would insist that they are a cancer based upon things they find abhorrent. That can only mean they hate themself and there's nothing they can do about it. That sounds like a very miserable life and I don't think it's very realistic. It's very self defeating.

 

exactly.

 

humans do need to find another way to power things that doesnt hurt the earth i agree.

 

Well we do have the technology to power things in ways which don't harm the earth. imho, the biggest obstacle always seems to be the economic rather than ecologic reasons. btw... Jointman is that doobie wearing a cape? I like it.

 

Your comparison is faulty.

1. Beavers alter the environment. It is a beneficial modification.

2. We destroy the environment. It is a destructive modification.

So, you see, it would be better if your comparison had been ignorance on your part, instead of sarcasm, seeing that you cannot liken what humans do to the earth to what beavers or termites do. It doesn't work.

I secretly hope you haven't "studied the environment", esp. for years...
anyways..I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't consider humans to be parasites. But you'd have to be somewhat insane to not acknowledge the destruction caused by humans. Alerting people to this damage is the first step in correcting it and preventing more.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I'm thinking in terms of species here, not individuals. Rats and mice would do fine without us. Dogs have become increasingly distinct from the wolves they evolved from. Think of it, a Pomeranian descended from the wolf. Crazy. Cattle, well, even if you think of individuals here, do you think they prefer factory farms, dairy farms etc. to ranging freely? Horses, maybe they enjoy humans, at least those with loving owners, but they would do fine as wild animals. As for crops, they would not go extinct. We have modified them to benefit us. Everything we do, we do because it benefits us.

 

first, before you mention my remarks out of context and incorrectly one more time, here is what i said:

DOESN'T THAT SOUND SILLY? i think you forgot i said that part. i notice that you left it out of your quotes and pretended it was never said. way to take something out of context, i'm sure you'll be a great politician one day. it was sarcasm, exageration - wasn't meant to be taken seriously. cute that you know what a keystone species is, yes yes you are obviously extremely smart and educated, can we move on?

no where, and in NO WAY did i say humans are NOT destroying their environment. i have definitely said how something has to be done, etc, etc, etc. i am protesting the usage of the term "cancer" and "parasite" and saying that this kind of language will only put the environmental movement even farther behind by pissing people off.

there are, however, beneficial roles played by humans. if you can't acknowledge that, then like i think i already said in this thread, you won't get very far in environmental debates. this whole HUMANS ARE HORRIBLE!! HUMANS ARE CANCER!! WE'RE THE ONLY SPECIES IN THE WORLD THAT HARMS THE ENVIRONMENT!!! attitude will get you NO WHERE with conservatives who insist that nothing is wrong. the right attitude is a calm one, without name calling, that actually attempts to work out the problems, not just list them.

should i send you my transcript that notes my environmental science minor? geez.

 

well first i'd say you should reevaluate this and your entire outlook.

the unwritten goal of every species is to benefit the species - get your genes out into the next generation, populate, spread. no species acts in such a way as to NOT immediately benefit itself - except of course, concerned humans.

concerned humans are taking a step back and looking at the environmental damage they've caused - at least some of us are trying to do something about it. now of course no one is so stupid as to do something that doesn't benefit themselves in some way, but reuse/reduce campaigns, the biodiesel effort, clean sweep campaigns, etc etc etc do not benefit us in the shortterm, but are more longterm beneficial plans that intend to benefit the world around us as well. this is a purely human concept. i'm not sure why you can't admit that.

 

I didn't take your comments out of context after my initial reply, when I thought you were serious. (Nor did I "leave it out of my quotes". Yes, it sounds silly to say beavers destroy the environment. BUT it doesn't sound silly to say HUMANS destroy the environment! Why? Because it's true. You tried to compare the two and it is not a valid comparision. How can you not see that?
Cute that I know what a keystone species is? Don't they teach that in highschool or maybe junior high? If that makes it sound to you like I was trying to impress you, then I really do fear for anyone who attends the school you unfortunately attended. I'm not trying to appear smart or educated, merely talking about the effect humans have on the earth. I couldn't care less what you think of me honestly.

Well, I'm afraid the cancer and parasite analogy was more accurate than your beaver/termite correlation.
Sometimes unpleasant and shocking statements need to be made before people get it through their heads that there is a problem. If some people want to use this method, I'm sure it won't hurt the movement. It's already been done many times anyways.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you there. This is a hippy forum or whatever, so I don't think too many people are going to get riled up about this post and I doubt that anyone is going to use the theme to make a difference in the real world.

 

Key words-"some of us" are trying to do something about it. Not nearly enough. That is the problem.
The fact that we do know better and we have the capacity to feel concern for other creatures besides ourselves is the very reason it is a shame that we have allowed so much destruction to occur.

 

all right that's close enough to agreeing that i think we can stop now

i'm not trying to argue, i'm sure we agree on a lot of things, i think i'm probably just a bit more environmentally skeptical, and the wording and the approach that vary.