I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

Hey, here's something new to argue about. Why does there have to be anything at all? Why does there have to BE anything? Why couldn't there just be no universe, and no God, no nothing, ever, ever. Everyone would be just fine with it because no one would exist!

(Not trying to begin conflict, just wonering lately.)

Oh and relaxxx, about that thing where not all matter is destroyed in the burning of paper, I meant not all matter turns to gas, some stays behind as ash. Sorry to confuse you.

I always seem to miss the big arguements that take place here. I only visit this forum once every few days, and I always miss the good stuff.


But were really getting off-topic here, the original question was that why does consciousness exist. And so far no one has come up with the answer (that includes scientists). Some people said that matter comes from energy, but then it was stated not too far back that energy is not conscious. WTF is going on.

My very personal belief is that God made everything, if you want to go back even further to "Who made God?" my answer is that it is way to hard a question for us to comprehend. I believe that even if God flat out told us the answer, we wouldn't comprehend it one bit. Ever notice that if you start thinking like what I posted in the first paragraph, eventually you get so eep in thought that your train of thought ceases and your back to where you were. Thats why its so hard to comprehend. I believe God applied a *I cringe at what insults I could get by writing this* Magic touch to some matter and gave it the ability to be self aware, and make choices for itself.

 

Yeah, I refer to that as going "Socratic" on your own A$$.

 

was that supposed to be an insult?

 

Yep, none. Make up better shit.

 

NO, NO, NO, please stop making up sit, and actually exact evidenary-justification, through trial hardened research, and decisively weighted analisis and criticism, from as many angles as possible, until we have uncovered the entirety of a singular subjectory perspective, then can safely AND confidently move on to others.

But no more conceptions of purely convolutant design, learn to breakdown to the particle!

Spreading peace this way, is a means to jointly tackle subjects, not segregatedly, deceive eachother in promotional subterfuge.

It's like social pollution it is.

 

That's Yeal in a NUT SHELL right there! Social pollution!



Poor guy, thinks he's won an argument he does. He's sorry he confused me! Ahh, how cute!

So can we please put an end to this NDE argument, at least clean up that particular pollution right now.



Brain activity is measured in electrical signals. To determine brain death, a state of no brain activity is measured at least twice to insure against false readings. I challenge anyone to find one documented case where brain death was confirmed and the person came back to life and talked about their NDE. NDE's are vivid dreams from the imaginations of shocked and stressed brains that recover from their trauma. There is no proof of them being any more than that. No more pollution!!!

 

We've explained the possible origions of consciousness several times. evolution/emergent complexity (complex patterns from simple observable rules) explains it well.
You just don't understand it.
and i fear you never will.
so trying to 'prove' anything to you is just a waste.
cause you believe your own ignorance justifies god's existence.

 

relaxxx-"I challenge anyone to find one documented case where brain death was confirmed and the person came back to life and talked about their NDE"

Im currently reading a book called "90 minutes in heaven" where this guy dies in a car accident and the EMT's declare him dead and everything. They put a covering over him and dealt with other injured victims. 90 minutes after hes been declared dead, he returns with a full blown near death experience. Hey and guess what? ITS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERY NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE OUT THERE! That how i know there true. They ALL have to do with being in Gods presence, feeling unconditional love and peace, meeting past friends/family that has died, and more.

If you close minded fools would take the time to read a few of these(there all over the internet) then would truly understand how nobody could be making these up. There all the same in their own way its amazing. Oh ya, the NDE experiencer's claim that the place they go where they die, IS MORE REAL THAN LIVING ON EARTH. Oh ya, and almost everyone who has an NDE claim to 1st float above their body.

Think this is all bullshit? Read CHILDRENS near death experiences man. THERE ALL THE SAME WE GO TO HEAVEN WHEN WE DIE GOD LOVES US ALL AND WE NEED TO GROW CLOSER TO HIM.

 

Yes... directed towards myself though.

I am bad for analyzing things so much I wind up back at square one.

 

lol yeah that happens to me when I imagine Forever and Eternity. That takes my brain for a ride. And relaxxx, I'm not being an ass to you, so don't be an ass to me. All I did was explain what I meant. If it means that much to you to win an argument with a 15 year old, then ok, YOU WIN.

 

HERE WE GO! People have NDE's while brain-dead. Feel free to attack the credibility of the article as I'm sure it's bound to happen. If that is so, I'll go find another one, this took me about 30 seconds to find.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

 

It's kind of suspicious that in both of those examples of NDE's the two people are using their STORIES to make money from the religious community. I'll sell you guys some snake oil too if your that naive in blindly believing these obviously biased towards religion stories from these swindlers. I mean the first one is an obvious mistake by the emergency crew and there no possible proof of any brain death at the scene. I am somewhat surprised that the above example has the balls to claim a brain death EEG reading but the story just doesn't sound right. I think they are masturbating and selectively picking out medical information from the surgery to fit their story. I sure as piss don't believe to be factual as it is clearly manipulated to sell to the religious community and those who desperately want to believe.

 

ah well, I knew it would come to not believing relaxxx. try doing some research on your own. try googling "NDE Brain Dead" and see if you can persuade yourself otherwise. you dont have to just if you want more evidence then I just gave you. (i know your not going to google it though

 

Hahaha theres many atheists who have had NDE's that has changed their life. If you think all the NDE's are lies, then look at FORUMS where theres people like ME AND YOU who post there experiences. Are they lying too? Why would they?

 

There are so many reasons to lie, attention, money, spirituality self justification, spiritual ranking...

I just realized there can be no real proof because even if a state of brain death is reached, which I think is fucking bullshit, there would be a fade out of brain activity and a fade in where the dreams could have taken place and there is absolutely no way on earth to prove the moment that this experience occurred in.

Give me a break, these stories are so obvious exaggerations, religious manipulation of facts like creationists always do. Come on, more real that reality, what kind of bullshit is that about? This is a fucked up world chocked full of liars, con artists and complete nut jobs.

Fuck, I had a dream when I was 6 years old that I thought was real. I tore the house up looking for a toy I swore I had gotten but it was a dream. Much younger, when I was still sleeping in a crib I dreamed I floated up to the ceiling and looked down as I drifted out the room and down the hall to the kitchen. It was so vivid of a DREAM I remembered it all my life. It's a common DREAM, get over it. Jesus Christ, if I was another religious nut job I'd be claiming I almost died from crib death and it was anther fucking over dramatized NDE!!!

 

lol

 

I hope for you own good that one day you have an NDE, theyre supposed to be a dream, but like a REAL dream. And as I said before, doesn't this qualify as an afterlife since they are absolutely brain dead, and they are living a conscious experience?

If you say no, you are deluding yourself, because the answer is yes. NDE's have been pretty much proven because, #1 thousands of people have had them. I can unserstand if like a few hundred of them lie to hop on the bandwagon, but most people tell the truth, they have no reason to lie. And #2 it has been scientifically proven. SCIENTIFICALLY! Google it! Wikipedia it. IT IS REAL!

Since they are real, and they happen to brain dead people, this is an afterlife. There is no loophole in that statement. Let's hear your best attempt to weasel your way out of admitting that not only NDE's are real, but that they qualify as an afterlife.

 

God can't be "understood", how could our limited sense ever comprehend something all seeing and all encompassing. As such, it cant be proven through any kind of linguistic means because Divine Reality is extra-linguistic. Check out Wittgenstein

 

I didn’t say NDE's didn't exist. I said there is no proof that they are anything more than a dream like condition of the mind. You don't even understand what scientific proof is do you? There is nothing on wikipedia NDE site that even suggests any 'snickering' EVIDENCE that they are a supernatural, spiritual event. They talk a lot about the brain's chemistry in relation to these DREAMS and a small mention about how religious people link this to spirituality. So where is this evidence? This Scientifically confirmed scientific evidence by respectable non-biased real scientists!! Where is it?

 

you just completely dodged the point I made about how NDE's qualify as an afterlife.