I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

We have no choice? Did I read that correctly? I was under the assuption of free will. That's a fantastic example of free will there guy.

Sorry..just had to.:jester:

 

quote Smokingdude:

'I believe God makes the experiencer go back to earth to tell people about it, and how God is REAL.'

This happened to me, exactly, after a near-fatal driving accident in '95. I had no memory of the crash, no memory of myself or anything. I was conscious, and had complete clarity but no thoughts of my life or the world. It was a state of bure bliss and complete contentment. No sense of time or space, just the feeling of 'being' which was like paradise. The first 'thing' I can remember is seeing 2 friends and my brother by my hospital bed, although I was in a coma for another 4 days, so I was not awake. I am told that I faded out several times and a priest was brougt in to read me the last rites and say prayers with my friends. I saw that my friends were distraught with grief and it struck me that they were suffering needlessly, because if I was dead, I was perfectly happy because it was wonderful and completely peaceful. I felt I had a decision over weather to stay in my blissful state, or return to life. I realised that I had no fear of death because that perfect peace would always be there waiting for me if I did return to life. I wanted to go back to let my friends know that there was no need to grieve for me and no reason to fear death.

There have been many times I have regretted my 'decision' to come back, because it is full of pain everyday and I want to go back to that paradise, but then I think, 'That's always gonna be there, life isn't, so it's not like I'm wasting time being here'. The pain and suffering don't matter because I know my final destination, they just teach me more about life. I have no interest in wealth or power because I know that they don't bring contentment, only more suffering. I see life in an entirely different perspective than before, but I find it frustrating how I can't share that feeling of complete oneness with the universe with anybody. I felt like I joined with God for a brief while and suddenly everything I knew about God made sense whereas, before I was Atheist/Agnostic. I still think that the 'outer-body' experience I had when I saw my friends by my bedside, was a construct of my subconscious, playing out the cognitive process like a screenplay. What I still think is real though, is the blissful feeling of pure consciousness when released from life and the human ego that is inherrent in just existing. Human life is a transitory manifestation of existing energy, which is infinite and eternal. This is, what I believe God is. All the stories about people's NDEs don't 'prove' anything. They are just things people have said. If I said I saw a pig flying. It doesn't prove that pigs can fly. If a miracle really did happen, there would be indisputable proof that everyone could see, not just some story appearing on a paranormal website.

 

Snake-eyes:

Sure.

Concerning 'god' however, you still haven't given your reason for using the word, considering the meaning you give it.

Eugene addressed you about it also in this thread.

 

What else are you gonna call it? 'Reality'?, 'Truth'?, 'Infinity'?, 'The Universe'?. None of those terms capture the essence of the relationship with humanity that 'God' does and it is the relationship with humanity that is important as it gives us direction on how to live.

The important thing about the nature of the relationship between universe and Humanity is that we are connected to it, we are part of it, we're made from it and we are bound to it. We are it. Understanding this is beneficial to survival and the metaphor of God as a parent illustrates this point. Note of the impersonal terms we might use to describe the universe indicate any kind of interaction with human life and, although they may be interesting, are of no actual use to us in life

The metaphor of God also indicates that the universe has other attributes and characteristics important to humans eg

Omnipotent - All-Powerful. Like a father (or the traditional stereotype of a father), Nature (or 'God') is powerful and should be respected. If we don't respect, we feel his wrath
Omniscient - All-Knowing. ('Conscious' - I know you have a hard time with this) All thoughts and intentions have repercussions, either as direct actions or more subtle influence. Even thoughts that are kept 'secret' and are buried in the subconscious and forgotten eventually surface in some form. This is a law of cause and effect. All those hidden and secret or unconscious thoughts and intentions are still out there in the universe having some effect or other. This is what i mean when I say the universe has consciousness. It contains all of our consciousnesses and our unconsciousnesses
Loving. How is the universe loving? Because it nurtured us and it sustains us. Everything we are and everything we have is given to us by the universe or by 'God'. Therefore we should love God and know that we are loved. The usual argument against this is that if God is loving, then why does he allow suffering, eg. war, disease, death etc. Answer is, these things are not evil in themselves. People only think of them as evil because they are scared of death. In God there is no death, we live forever. The human being is only a fleeting manifestation.
Creator. Eg we are all of the same essence, like a family, with God as the father, we are all children, regardless of race, class, gender, etc. If we lived as children of God the father, the world would be a better place etc..

Also, it is important to remember that someone elses revelation of truth may be different to yours but it is equally valid. Truth has many names. Do not dismiss other people's revelation of truth as God. It may be the same truth in a different guise. You could learn from it. On the other hand of course, another person's 'revelation' of God may be a crock of shit (and it often is). That's for you to decide, but don't write off God per se.

Sorry gotta go back to work

 

this is bogus. if you cannot describe it as 'The Universe' or even 'Reality' or 'Truth' in the essence like you said then what exactly are you talking about...

are you kidding me!

 

I forget who asked me the other day what I reffered to as the big picture...

Thanks Snakeyes.

That was bloody brilliant.

Could not have done any better myself.

It's a crying un-godly shame that everyone does not see if this way. I want to throw up when I see all these religious people that still FEAR God, and have all this GUILT and animosity towards God, cause they don't see what's going on around them. They just read texts and take everything literal and don't go looking in depth.

I really can't blame Atheists for being so. . It is sure isn't easy to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

sighs...

anyways...

Thanks Snake, you saved me would have been an eventual rant on my part.

 

yeah especially when those pieces you are talking about don't exist. that would be very difficult indeed.

 

What snake and I see, is not non-existant... We simply look around the world around us and see this vast network of interconnected energy. One, where thoughts and emotions actually modify it. I mean we KNOW this. This is not bullshit. The Water experiments of Masaru Emoto have proven this. This has been observed, recorded and accepted.

Once you see this on a large scale and come to grip with the fact that the whole universe is running on this principle, I like to refer to this as Enlightenment. Unfortunatly 99% of people call this delusional. I don't give a @!#$. Let me have the picture perfect life, with out any struggle, effort or fear. As a matter of fact that's why i'm here one of the only things that makes me unhappy is to know there are so many that can't reach this stage of Enlightenment.

In any case, I'll put this is in language that I hope all will understand... When you finally wrap your head around this concept, that the universe is this massive "interconnected network of energy" (Kinda like a huge telephone network)... Then it should only take you 0 to 1 minute to also realize that all networks need a switchboard and all switch boards need an operator (or well now a days at least some kind set of instructions, or program) that tells the switch how to run. That operator (or program) that is operating the switchboard at the center of this universe is "God".

shakes head, and sighs

It took me forever to see it this way... But like i said, all you need is one tiny glimpse, and it DOES bring your to your knees. And life really becomes a gift on every level a MIRACLE, because no word in any human language can describe this "perception". You really can be, do, or have, anything that will make you Happy. And the journey of your life will become this truly amazing experience. All you need do is open your eyes, believe, and have faith. And this is coming from a guy who was an TOTAL non-believer for at least 15 years.

So all I can say is pay attention to the world around you and look beyond what's apparent cause there really is an amazing BACKSTAGE show going on in the background that is mind numbingly beautiful!

One more thing,

"95% of the entire whealth in this world is controlled by 5% of the population. Do you seriously think that is a coincidence?"

- Bob Proctor (www.thesecret.tv)

The truth is no, these people are laughing and pointing at us like bullies on a playground, crying out the phrase "I know something you don't know"!!!

GAH!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!

 

-accepted by who? after digging into this i have read that his experiments ( about trying changing the state of water with emotions and such other than heating/cooling ) were contraversial and that he picks the most pleasing photographs which was said to be written by himself in one of his books. and he is vague about his experiments to the scientific community. how is that accepted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto

-yeah you don't give a **** thats, probably why you don't make any sense to me. how is taking only your "view", if thats what you want to call it (as doesnt make much sense), getting the big picture. oh yeah you don't give a ****. if you don't care about other views then whats the point of discussing it?

-what does wealth prove?

 

Venom, please take Nick's advice. Even though I already believe in God, I am going to give this interconnected universe some thought.

 

why would i do that.

Nikalaus uses some psuedo science experiments to justify the incosistent things he is saying and and lying about how it has been accepted. he doesn't give a damn.

Nikilaus even agrees with snakeeyes who said himself that the essence of what he is talking about is not cannot be described as 'Truth' or 'Reality' . that means its bull. and you : you were using NDE's as evidence, and have not said anything against things i have mentioned about NDE's.

this is ridiculous

 

This is getting a bit silly, but I must have a say on a few things. Any world-view or universe-model we have is just a personal metaphor for our understanding of reality. I dont think we should expect anyone else to see it exactly the same way, as though it was absolute truth. Preaching metaphors as literal truth is the failing of religions.


Venom, I didn't say reality couldn't be described as reality, or truth as truth. They can, because that's what they are. Calling them God, or Lord, or father etc. just adds an extra dimension of an understanding of our relationship with that reality. People have different understandings of their relationship with the universe

I see the universe as a single living being which created me and loves me and is of the same essence as me. For me, it is all about connectedness and oneness. That's my understanding of how the universe works. The idea of God seems to fit pretty well for me. I guess, if you don't agree that you have any relationship with the rest of the universe, then that idea of God isn't going to fit

 

I'll have to give you that one. I'm staring a new job that's going to be consuming most of my time now, so I no longer have time arguing common sense and common knowledge to creationists to don't want to hear it. So you go ahead and take the final words, this thread is already too polluted for me anyway, I'm out.

 

That was me simply showing my despair towards the 99% of people who CHOOSE to turn away, and walk away blindly from enlightenment that is right under their nose. It's unltimatly your CHOICE. You are absolutly right personally I DO CARE HARDCORE. But if you go off running blind side i'm certainly not gonna hunt you down and ram my beliefs down your throat... I'm not like that. Therefor I CHOSE to post that rather ... brash comment. I'm only in here posting my views nothing more nothing less. If it happens to pick the curiosity of some, so be it.

 

Now there is a mouthful of wisdom right there!

 

thats not the same comparison. you said that the essence of "God" couldn't be desribed as "Reality" or "Truth". if something is not "Reality" then its bogus.

if you are saying that "God" is more than "Truth" or "Reality" then i say that it's possible because as far as i know, you are based in Reality.

things in the universe seem to be interacting and the fact that they have the universe in common is a some kind of relationship. love/creation by a living being? i don't know where you got that romantic idea. your view is so much different that it's like you are describing a different reality. this is not what i would expect but i have become used to it.

 

I didn't say that the essence of God 'couldn't' be described as reality or truth you dumb fuck. You piss me off. I'm out too, and yes I am a weak and imperfect human being also.

 

i do agree with that in the way that i can never really draw the line between what religions assume to be metaphors and what they assume to be the truth.

edit: i was referring to this part of your post

 

Inconsistence?

What is inconsistent in a view of an "interconnected" universe?

And if you don't believe the water experiements, try it for yourself. Like I did... (P.S. this is the only thing that made me buy into this concepte fully)...

Like a fellow poster said in here earlier true enlightment does come from WITHIN. you have to catch this GLIMPSE i'm refering to somehow on your own...

The excersise I did was simply take a log at the end of my days some of the "dramatic" events in my day, and noted the emotion attachted to it.

i.e.

Spilled Coffee on my lap, ANGER.
Car would not start, DESPAIR, ANGER.
Got Call from old Friend, HAPPY.

I did this for about three months, and in the end I realized something...

These correlations start RE-MANIFEST THEMSELVES, AGAIN AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN. only somewhat diffrent... for example let's say the above example was on saturday of week one... ... the following wednesday or thursday or somewhere in the near future you may be shocked to see something like...

Spilled paint on floor while painting den, ANGER.
Was stood up for a business meeting, DESPAIR, ANGER.
Drove by an old "hang out", HAPPY.

In other words... by doing this logging excersise, you will eventually start to see like I did, that somewhere along the way, something out there is listening to the emotions in your head, and this something I CANNOT EXPLAIN... something I cannot, see, touch, feel, taste, or hear. Yet it's there its present and I know by virtue of this simple LOGBOOK of my life and experiences... that this something is there and it is sending awnsers to requests whether I like them or not.

The water expirement for me is like a holy grail, because it's proof of something I came to believe in on my own prior to seeing it.

Why did I do the LOGBOOK exercise?

Because as proabably most North American's are probably doing after watching this new documentary called "The Secret" I said this is COMPLETE NONSENSE. THIS CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE.

IN MY PERSONAL ATTEMPT AT DISPROVING THIS INFORMATION, I CAME TO MY KNEES... FOR AT SOME POINT... YOU HAVE TO BE A COMPLETE IDIOT TO SEE THERE IS NO CONNECTION!

But Again, its my life, my experience, my perception, my view. God only knows how far down the rabbit hole you have to go to believe.

IF anything this forum has taught me one valuable approach and for that I thank you all.

If we are to ratify all this and "truly believe" In God, you have to start with nothing. I MEAN nothing. FORGET everything. Religion, prophets, bibles, new age, tarot, burn all that shit and forget it. somebody else said I read on here said we shoudnt bring kids to church, I coudn't agree with them more.

I see it now, and it makes even more sense to me.

You can't ram it down people's throats. PERIOD. It's like I started off saying in here it's a question of personal perception of the universe around us, and the rest is sleight of hand.

And on that note, I wish you all the best of luck on the path of enlightenment. It is my MOST deepest profound wish that you can all taste this experience, this perception of the world around you. Because like I said, NOTHING is impossible for you once you do. OUT OF NOTHING A WAY CAN BE MADE my friends. It takes away all the guessing, all the mystery, all the fear out of living. You simply live a solid full happy life, full of color. And if you are sitting there and you do not believe in God, or an after life, and you are currently going around living your life pretending to be living a said "solid full happy life". Let me give you a serious dose of reality... There is only one thing SURE and TRUE in this life: IT ENDS.

He who is not busy being born, is busy dying.

If you want to truly live HAPPY, you also have to die happy, and to die happy you have to... ... ...?

You can fill that blank with whatever you wish... but it has to be filled somehow.

Now if you'll all excuse me I have more profound things to discuss... because I know some idiot is gonna be jumping on the horn in 2 minutes saying ... YAH die of a massive heart attack while having sex with these 2 hotties.

*shakes head*

And one more thing Masaru Emoto is a PUBLISHED AUTHOR, in order to PUBLISH your work a publishing house must accept it's "validity".

***shakes head again and bows head knowing that somebody is gonna blurt out "they accepted it only to make money, and rip off delusional people"***

God, how sad and pathetic can the human race become, seriously?

 

Arguing with an atheist is like arguing with a brick wall, except for one thing. Whatever you say to them, they tweak and meddle with it so it looks like you said something completely retarded.