I fear for the state of our military and the work they do after this...

I will have to say I honestly don't dislike anyone here.
Hell, jmt even gave me +rep today!!! And we we like the Hatfields and McCoys for a while there.
Some though do consistantly say some fairly stupid things.
I'm exactly the same way in person.
I call it being honest and holding people accountable for the shit they say. Some call it being an asshole.

Whatever, if you venture out into the world of internet forums, take your thick skin with you.

 

I'm not saying you dislike anybody.
You are self aware enough to know you can be a dick...I thought I spotted an unwarranted comment, but if you think it was fair, again, fair enough.
I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it.

I have a thick skin...
I also am a little too sensitive...I just thought it is her thread she can say what ever the hell she likes.

 

It is a free speech forum after all.

 

Exactly.

 

pb you're cruisin for a bruisin shawty

 

yeah, let's go there. we're talking about the military, the government and foreign policy. not the private sector.

 

now let's find out how much they spent piping waterlines to villages in the middle east.

 

Ok.

 

*crickets chirping*

Someone should step up to the plate and offer some figures on how well spent the trillion dollars was on the Iraq/Afghanistan war.

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Finding out how much - in total - has been spent on water management, let alone reconstruction is beyond my patience levels.
I did look, but investment is through many different channels. E.g...

The UN:
http://www.unops.org/english/whatwedo/UNOPSinaction/Pages/Rehabilitatingin.aspx

The US:

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2007 Department of Defense appropriations: $70 billion(estimated) for Iraq War-related costs
FY2007 Emergency Supplemental (proposed) $100 billion
FY2008 Bush administration has proposed around $190 billion for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.
FY2009 Obama administration has proposed around $130 billion in additional funding for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.
FY2011 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

Hard Lessons: The Iraq Reconstruction Experience. Hard Lessons

See also - Six Water Networks project in Iraq

October 13, 2010
NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE GRANT’S SECURITY COSTS AND
IMPACT GENERALLY SUPPORTED, BUT DEPARTMENT OF STATE​

OVERSIGHT LIMITED

This report addresses the Department of State’s

(DoS) management of a $50 million grant to the
National Democratic Institute (NDI) for​

democracy-building activities in Iraq.
http://www.sigir.mil/files/audits/11-001.pdf#view=fit

Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction
http://www.sigir.mil/index.html

In 2003, the US Congress established specific objectives for providing access to potable water and sewerage coverage to the people of Iraq, allocating a budget of $4.3 billion to this sector alone. By the end of 2004, however, the increased surge of violence forced Congress to redirect portions of sector funding to the security and justice, thereby drastically reducing the budget allocated for water and sanitation.

Despite the funding cuts, the Water Sector has critical water, wastewater, and water resource infrastructure underway. To date, the sector has successfully transitioned from the initial design and planning phases, to the project execution and transitioning to Iraqis phases. The sector continues to work closely and integrate resources with all affected stakeholders. These include, but are not limited, to the Iraq Project and Contracting Office (PCO), Iraq Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO), USAID, Major Subordinate Commands (MSCs), Gulf Region Division (GRD), MMPW, the Ministry of Water Resources (MWR), and the Amanat of Baghdad. This integration effort ensures that the sector's efforts are leveraged to achieve the goals and objectives of the US Mission in Iraq.

• Nasiriyah Water Supply

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7GGLT_en&q=Nasiriyah+Water+Supply&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=




- This $172 M project involves construction of new treatment works and 70 km of pipeline to supply water that will relieve water shortages to one million people.

• Basrha Sewerage

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...erage+&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

• - This $53 M project involves cleaning the existing sewer, completing partially built pump stations, adding missing pipelines between drainage areas, connecting three new drainage areas to the main sewer, and replacing inlet works at the main treatment facility.

• Baghdad Wathba and Whada Water Treatment Plant Rehabilitations

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...tions+&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

- This project is refurbishment of two existing treatment works valued at $14M for improving water quality and increasing output.

https://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/portal/page?_pageid=95,77607&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

 

Thanks for the links.

Roughly a trillion dollars over 8 years. That's about a quarter million dollars spent per minute.

The 1.5 million dollar Appalachian water project grant mentioned earlier in the thread is about 6 minutes worth of what is being spent on the war.

The 4.6 billion spent on the Appalachian area mentioned earlier in the thread that was spent over four years is worth 13 days of the war money.

.

 

And why the two are being compared is beyond me.


edit: The original post about water was made after a video of positive work being done by soldiers was posted. Seems a little degrading to the troops who did that work to then equate it state side with money being spent in total.

Their work in getting the water for those people is without monetary value, water is like that. We do not exist without it.

 

The intent wasn't to belittle the effort of troops overseas.

We could say the same thing about the importance of water to the people in Appalachia. Perhaps it doesn't seem as endearing when the work is done by non-military domestic workers compared with troops overseas in harm's way.

The production possibilities issues are still there nonetheless. We could spend $20 trillion in getting water to people in a particular country overseas based on economic, political, religious, or ideological motives (or perhaps some ulterior motive of those making the decision) and neglect far more people in the rest of the world as a result.

http://www.moneyinstructor.com/lesson/opportunitycost.asp

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lol, this thread is fucked up. someone should close it...

 

Sorry Shaggie, I did not mean to imply that you were being disrespectful to troops. My apology.

I agree with you that it is not any less important that anyone has drinking water. Nor is the effort by a civilian any less honourable than by military personnel.

I think that I would rather know that money is being spent on something that is sustainable than to be used in actual combat. So if at least a portion of the funds spent do improve conditions, while not perfect, it is hopefully something that will be a benefit for years to come.

 

Shaggie, to be fair, we should compare the how much is spent on water projects in the US and Iraq/Afghanistan, not how much is spent in Iraq/Afghanistan "on the war".
I'll look it up, but I imagine the amount spent in Iraq/Afghanistan on water projects and infrastructure, in general, is minuscule compared to how much has been spent in the US over the last 8 years.

Obama Calls for $50 Billion Public Works Plan - NYTimes.com

 

a gift to the wall steet bankers
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article22705.html

 

The point that was being raised wasn't really a comparison of the money spent on water supply in Iraq versus the entire infrastructure of the U.S. It's still a trillion dollars of war money that could have been spent in other areas (U.S. infrastructure such as water supply, health care, projects elsewhere in the world). There isn't any way around that. At issue is other opportunity that was foregone for that trillion worth of resources within a given budget.

.

 

Then one can argue, "It's not that bad. We can simply expand the budget still further. The U.S. is going to increase the war spending plus spend another $50 billion on its own infrastructure."

That isn't a great answer either. The U.S. deficit for 2010 and 2011 is about $1.4 trillion. That's approaching 40% of the federal budget and about 10% of the GDP. The national debt itself is approaching the GDP.

With that approach, people will likely be paying higher taxes eventually to pay off creditors of the national debt, or the creditors will be holding the bag on a debt that can't be paid off, much like individuals who lost on bad investments or got duped by ponzi schemes.

There is also the human costs to all of this with dead and injured civilians and troops. That's more difficult to put numbers on.

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