I fear for the state of our military and the work they do after this...

most definitely good

 

thank you
!! My husband is a marine, and he doesnt act like that at all. He doesnt enjoy being in the military but he certainly doesnt act like that, when he gets off, or has leave. so seriously way to judge a complete group of people by one experience. typical.

 

I actually wanted to post a clip of the time warp from 2001 a space odyssey, that's a phenomenal scene.

 

Especially in context with the military?

 

That's why I didn't post it.

 

i have a friend that served a couple of tours in iraq. He laughs about the people he killed and he watches youtube videos of people getting blown up with mortars for fun. He also cries when he watches war movies. he tries to hunt but ends up naming all the deer and befriending them. he says its harder to kill animals than people because people are all fucked up and animals are inocent. i feel sorry for him. before he went in the military he was into native american earth religions. he walked around naked all the time and smoked a lot of pot and communed with nature.

The military and war fucks people up. You can't really write off soldiers because they act like idiots. You don't know what they've seen that makes them think its okay to act like that.

 

So you base the statement of fear based upon the action of a few idiots. Those same idiots that I would venture to say would be idiots no matter what they chose to do in life.

What they did was unacceptable and they should of been reported to the campus authorities and to their CO. Instead it is posted here. You can not voice outrage and yet not follow through and report it.

I grew up military. Stupidity abounds in the military but there are also those who are the majority who do not fall with in the stupid category. All countries who have a military force are going to have those who are just not suited for this career. If no one reports or files complaints then they remain on duty. Your responsibility as a civilian is to report it.

Were they wrong to act in such a manner, yes, without exception.

That no one could take the time or effort to report it says more about what we chose to say is acceptable by actions and then later complain about.

Who is more at fault.

 

I don't think that has necessarily to do with the people the OP was talking about. A person that works and lives in discipline just easily gets overexcited on their days off. Especially when they're having fun with their comrades.

 

I'm not sure.
Does he laugh at the inncocent that are blown up and killed or does he not bother to check one way or another?
I'm not having a go, btw, just askin'.

 

I think in his eyes he views all middle easterners as worthless. He was in infantry; he's killed so many middle easterners he's completely desensitized to the death of them. He doesn't view any of them as innocents. Its completely fucked up....it freaks me the hell out, to be honest. But I can't help liking the guy for other things...he plants flowers. He's loyal to his friends. He's a great dad. He respects women. He loves animals. But he's completely fucked up in the head. I blame the military. He had no special psychological attention when he got back. War effects people different ways. He should have went through extensive psychological evaluation and a long period of debriefing before they discharged him. Instead, they gave him 80 percent disability based on his mental problems and sent him on his way. He had such bad night terrors that his wife left him because she couldn't sleep in the same bed with him anymore. The military and the war took away all that was good about him and thats why i feel sorry for him.

Which goes back to my original point: I know the OP wasn't really referring to scenarios like this, but I did want to bring up PTSD because I think its something thats rarely talked about; I've known several people that have served tours in Iraq so I've seen a few cases firsthand. Older people on this forum know exactly what i'm talking about because they saw all the vietnam veterans return. War is not kind and the military does a lousy job of introducing soldiers back into civilian society. I think its easy for society to use soldiers as scapegoats when in fact we need to point fingers at the entire structure of the military. A soldier is trained to be a killing machine. As long as militaries exist, there is no way to get around that. However, the debriefing of soldiers is something that I think should really be examined.

I know I got a little deeper and off topic from the original post, but this is something that hits close to home for me

 

I'm sorry but I have come across lots of those stories. In fact, when I read your post I thought why go that road again in this thread. Not trying to trivialize the soldiers with these problems 'cause it's very sad indeed (also the amount...) btw.

 

Actually I fear for the state of your military as well... but not for the reason why this thread was created.

 

I see. I can't work these types of people out, to be honest.
On the one hand I can see how warfare against a predominantly faceless foe can leave some people slightly mentally cracked, but on the other hand why does that necessarily mean they treat a whole group of people: including innocent people they are supposed to be fighting for...in the same way.
I'd ask him why doesn't or why isn't he willing to differentiate between the "Good" and the "Bad"?
The soldier can say: "I don't wish to differentiate" "I can't" or "I'm trying to"...
If you have asked the same questions, what else can you do?
If they are seemingly "normal" in every respect aside from watching Youtube videos, what else can the military do?
It's only if they decide to act on their mental state and go on some rampage, causing trouble with "Middle-Easterners" that are living near them...then it really does get fucked up.
This chap seems to not wish to differentiate and in every other area is perfectly ok.

I do feel sorry for him.
But, he doesn't sound completely fucked up...but I do not know him...so I'm not going to judge him.
I'm surprised they have not debriefed him over a long period of time.
But perhaps his mental state has crept up on him.
Questions. Questions. Questions.
I'm just asking why he is the way he is. I have no real answers.
Thank You for explaining the situation for me, I appreciate it.
I hope he sorts his life out.

That's the very least they should do.

It's ok. Thank You, again, for explaining the situation.

 

I have a good friend that was affected by the war. it didn't crack him, but he has some degree of ptsd. it definitely changed him.

 

In 1978 I became friends with a Vietnam vet. He was an Army Ranger and ended up doing two tours of active duty in some of the nastiest parts of the war. He was a very nice person in all respects when I met him. No real PTSD issues or such. But in talking occasionally about his experiences two things he said stood out and I often am reminded of them when such topics come up.
In talking about "fighting" he said
"Whats fighting? I don't know how to fight, they trained me to kill. Thats why I never go out to bars. If someone starts shit with me, I'll kill them. I don't know what just fighting is anymore."
It's not that he was some violent asshole, it's that he was trained to kill and had to do it with bare hands on more than one occasion. It became automatic and instinctual.

Concerning the Vietnamese immigrants that came to the U.S. when America pulled out of the war. He told me, "I don't have a personal problem or dislike the Vietnamese. But I spent almost a decade of my life being trained to kill them on sight. Sometimes that training comes back to me and I have to remember they are no longer my enemy."

Worked with another vet who was a "tunnel rat", small guy that would strip down to his underwear and crawl into VC tunnels with nothing but a .45 and a knife and kill anyone he encountered.
He hardly ever talked, smiled or really interacted with others beyond what was necessary. The only persons he would talk to were a couple of other vets because "they were there and understand". I was told once by one of them to never ask him about the war or you may end up in the hospital.

Being in an active war zone changes a person profoundly.

 

Why? because some young idiot like me would say something flippant like:
"Hey, man...you were only there a year. Are you telling me you spent ten years training to kill one specific enemy? Come on. If you came across the innocent civilians what were you taught to do? Kill them? Bollocks."

Well, that is what goes through my mind.

Thankfully, I'm also a little more sensitive than that.
I also recognise being in an active war zone can change a person profoundly.
Very much so as far as Vietnam is concerned.

I'm interested because I was in foster care (and a children's home) and I have read this:

Foster care:

In the Casey Family Northwest Alumni Study, conducted in conjunction with researchers from the Harvard Medical School in Oregon and Washington state, the rate of PTSD in adults who were in foster care for one year between the ages of 14-18 was found to be higher than that of combat veterans. Up to 25 percent of those in the study meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD as compared to 12-13 percent of Iraq war veterans and 15 percent of Vietnam war veterans, and a rate of 4 percent in the general population. The recovery rate for foster home alumni was 28.2% as opposed to 47% in the general population.
In one study (Dubner and Motta, 1999), 60% of children in foster care who had experienced sexual abuse had PTSD, and 42% of those who had been physically abused fulfilled the PTSD criteria. PTSD was also found in 18% of the children who were not abused. (me)
These children may have developed PTSD due to witnessing violence in the home.

PTSD is a very strange and personal disorder.
I can't explain my feelings and I'd never think anybody else could.
But I do worry too many people claim to have it, so I have to be cruel first and understanding second.
I hope you understand.

 

Odon, its interesting you bring up foster care because one of the other guys I knew that served a tour in iraq was a foster child already suffering from various problems that stem from that type of upbringing. We stayed in touch for several months after he returned from Iraq and one drunken evening he got really emotional and started sharing with me how he felt so much survivors guilt because the men he knew that died in Iraq had families and he never had a real family. Other than that one drunken night, it seemed like he made it out pretty unscathed. I often wondered if his previous trauma as a foster child left him better equipped to handle the emotional trauma of war.

 

I was in Iraq..


do you think im nuts?...

 

No.

 

aren't nuts kinda your thing?