I fear for the state of our military and the work they do after this...

Were they magic fatigues that instantly increases their maturity level?
I get what your saying, but maybe you are expecting maybe too much from a bunch of KIDS. How old were they, 18-22 or 40-45?

You want to extend the behavior of 4-5 individuals to a whole segment of society. I'm sure you would not want to be stereotyped like that.

 

I think PB makes a good point though. These aren't consumate professionals. They are kids. Couple that immaturity with the fact that testerone is found in higher doses than usual in the military, and things like that are bound to happen.

I'm not defending their actions, but i also don't really expect any better. You're dealing with a group of men that are trained not to think, but instead to take orders. There are exceptions of course. There are plenty of men that make it through the military with their critical thinking skills intact, orison being one of them. However, when you have a structure like the military that takes young kids and suppresses their ability for free-thinking, you can't really expect them to behave as anything but a bunch of young, immature dumbasses. just my two cents.

 

i don't think i was attempting to stereotype those individuals as much as i was voicing my concern for the fact people that can obviously become unstable would pass whatever screening process this military has. there needs to be better standards if that is what passes the filter.

these are representatives of the place that i live in. so i am at there mercy at times b/c they may be the only people from the us that others meet.

 

Current standards kept you out, and thats a good thing. I hope you don't travel outside the country.

 

i agree but the military can't exactly afford to be picky when its been stretched as thin as it has from the iraq and afghanistan occupation.

 

amyoxl, that makes no damn sense.

and too late, i have traveled outside of the country and the air up here is nice

 

maybe it shouldnt be occupying those places

 

obviously

 

With the outrage in your first post, I was actually surprised that you did not state that you reported it and the follow up to that.

 

Melai, are your prejudices coming out now?

 

What Amyoxl is saying is that considering some of your comments, you certainly don't represent the best and brightest America has to offer either.

 

I hope not. I was just making the point that you can't expect young men trained not to think and only to take orders to behave on the up and up at all times. I probably shouldnt have used the word dumb ass, but hell, thats how I think of ALL 18 year old boys, not just military boys. Maybe that is a prejudice, but its an educated prejudice that I made when I was 18 and associating with 18 year old boys

Boys in college aren't expected to behave like professionals and they are going to school to hopefully learn how to think. The military trains you not to think but only to take orders, so these boys shouldn't be expected to behave any better than their peers that choose college instead of the military. Ideally, young men in the military should understand that they're representatives of their country and should behave as such, but its not really realistic to expect them to behave perfectly all the time.

I'm sure you've noticed that I've known quite a few young men in the military. These guys do their job then they go back to the barracks and get drunk and act exactly like every other 18-25 year old guy in the world acts.

 

Vig, would you like to be judged because of this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaHe9qkf3Aw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaHe9qkf3Aw

adults with dreads. fucking dreads man. they were in hippy uniform.





I know I'm being a dick, I have too, it says so in my sig.

 

I've been an 18 year old boy, so I know what they can be like too.
While it's still, perhaps, a horrible cliché it is probably twice as true as it is false.
I agree at that age military folk aren't consummate professionals.
They are kids and immature for the most part.
This can account for the behaviour in the OP.
But then you go onto saying that the military don't train them to think, infact they train them not to think, which is probably a gross misrepresentation of military training (maybe orison can enlighten us)...
That seemed to be where your prejudices were coming out.
It's more likely, imho, military training will hasten the maturity levels of those kids in the OP.
However, if what you say is true, how do you expect those kids to act if they have not been taught any differently.
The military isn't teaching them about representing their country in a positive way.

 

Perhaps you're right and that is a misguided prejudice. I've never been in the military so I don't know exactly how they are trained, but I was always under the impression that they were trained for two things: to take orders and to react. I see how that could be defined as a prejudice, considering I have no first hand knowledge of the subject.

Would it be more accurate if I said "The military teaches one how to conform, and therefore discourages free-thinking?" If one is trained to think in terms of the military structure to which they belong, is that still thinking?

Or is that an equally prejudiced statement?

 

pb
wow, you are still missing the point entirely.

first of all i don't consider myself a hippie, nor do i consider the actions of people with the same hairstyle as me as representative of myself. however, i do consider members of the military as a representative of myself.

good thing you didn't pass the best or brightest test either

 

I'd say it is as an equally prejudiced statement as the first.

You generally don't see any other e.g of military training other than...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC0BmTYTgI&feature=related"]YouTube - Full Metal Jacket: Boot Camp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhyMO3IwPjY&feature=related"]YouTube - Jarhead Opening Scene

Imho, these representations are because it is supposed to say the military is training merely killers. I'll not go as far as to say it is a liberal conspiracy, but think about why it may be only being portrayed that way.
I could be horribly wrong.

 

so they acted like dumb fucks... big deal!
somethings never change!
i'm old enough, that i remember all the way back to the vietnamese civil war.
my brother jointed the marine corps. he was always going on, about how he, and the corps were going to wipe all the "gooks off the plaint."
his buddies, were always talking hawkish trash like that all the time.
back in the 1960's, as today also; the military was/is, full of gung ho shit for brains young people, that acted that same way back in the 1960's.
they were/are young and dumb... all the older members here at hip fourms, well tell you, we all had shit for brains when we were younger too.
that is just part of something we all go through when we're young and growing up.

what scares the living shit out me, is when you have someone who is 30, 40, 50 etc. years of age, who still has that same type of mentality of a 18 year old!:willy_nilly:

i got a retired air force general, who live up the street from me.
the guy must be in his late sixties or early seventies, and he spews forth that, 18 year old, shit for brains, hawkish, gung ho, grunt shit all the time.
heaven and hell help us all... it is going to be assholes like him, in positions of power, who will start world war 3, and burn the earth to a chrisp!

meliai, it is not just "all" 18 year old boys who have shit for brains.
"all" 18 year old girls have shit for brains too.

 

good thing you didnt go as far as to say that, because that would be a prejudiced statement

I probably subconsciously do base a lot of my views on military training on what i've seen in movies. I love the part in forrest gump where the drill sargeant asks forrest why he's there and he says "TO DO WHATEVER YOU TELL ME TO DO, DRILL SARGEANT!"

"GUMMPPP....YOU'RE A GODDAMN GENIUS!"

lol thats my favorite movie.

I still don't think I'm very far off the mark though. The military's job is to break a person down so they can build them back up in a way that suits the military.

where is orison, I would like to hear him weigh in on this

 

Oh, I get your point completely, I just believe it to be naive.
I agree with you about the conduct when in uniform should be such that reflects well on the military and America.
But your thread title;
I fear for the state of our military and the work they do after this...
is a little dramatic considering the event you witnessed. You also fail to acknowledge that by and large, they were acting like 80% of other guys their age regardless of uniform or job. That is all I initially tried to point out.

Do you even know if those guys had been in a foreign war zone? I'm going to guess not. Often that type of bravado and attitude fly's out the fucking window when your ass is being shot at.
My Uncle lied about his age and enlisted in WWII two days after his 17th birthday. He was a macho, kick ass, take no prisoners marine God Dammit!! That is until he was sitting in a transport vehicle heading to the beach at Normandy on D-Day with bullets whizzing over his head. Then he realized he was just a kid and shit just got very real. He was lucky, he survived and only got raked with machine gun fire that left 14 holes in his body.

As far as the training they receive, it's not to just conform, it's to function as a multi-person unit. That requires a certain amount of conformity, loss of individuality, and acting without maybe philosophizing about every action. All those traits are ingrained in order to KEEP THEM ALIVE!!
A soldier needs to be confidant in the abilities of their squad mates and vice versa, otherwise people get DEAD!

My brother joined the Navy at 17 and was discharged in '79 (2 months before the Iranian hostage crisis, lucky for him or he would have been there another year). It was the best thing that ever happened to him. His ass grew up real quick. He went in a smart ass punk, came out a responsible man. He also joined the National Guard some years ago and spent 18 months in Kosovo. I asked him if he had any trouble over there. The only thing was when some drunk started to cuss him out when he was on patrol. He warned the guy to move on, the guy didn't and reached in his jacket for something. My brother introduced the butt of his rifle to his face and shattered his jaw. He did it fast with no thought as to the "rightness" of his actions, training took over. Good thing, the guy had a 9mm handgun in his inside pocket where he put his hand. If it were not for the "mindless reactions drilled into him by the military" he may not be alive today.

Why am I going on about all this shit? Because I respect the horror and emotional anguish of having to take another persons life or just try to stay alive in a combat zone enough to keep my yap shut and not try to apply my idea of rational and right or wrong to what some of these men and women have to endure. Are they all saints? Hell no, but they aren't all assholes that drive recklessly around a college campus, that are putting the entire military and America at jeopardy by doing so.