I killed innocent people for our government by paul rockwell

skip, just a word, when you tire of debating these characters in the forums just give me the word, i am a master in dealing with the mentally ill that write in.

 

McCain, Bush agree on torture ban

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/15/torture.bill/index.html

 

"McCain, Bush agree on torture ban"

Great news

It is a step in the right direction sure enough, now we just have to hold them to it.

 

Senate rejects reauthorization of Patriot Act

Filibuster of extension of controversial measures successful

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/16/senate.patriot.ap/index.html

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So it goes in a democracy.

 

skip, unfortunately the questions you posted are 1) speculative and not factually grounded(yet at least) and 2) dont logically show that the US admitted to the use of torture. Although, i will agree with you on the use of waterboarding(though, i dont believe there is any concrete evidence that they HAVE applied it). I think its wrong and over the edge. Although, i hear they do it to our own troops. So i dont know how accurate my beliefs are on that.

As for why cheney lobbied against it? There is no consensus on what torture is. Sure, we all agree that pulling finger nails, electrouction and other things are torture, but people have varying opinions on things like: making people stand for long periods of time, exposure to cold, sitting in crouched positions, listening to metallica, etc etc. If you take 'degrade' or 'cruel' to the most expansive meanings, it covers just about EVERYTHING. They fear it will hamper the US's ability to gather intelligence.


out of curiosity, what do you all believe we should do in ticking bomb scenarios?

 

What say like 11 million people voteing from a varied range of political and religous backgrounds.. i wonder if that will ever happen ?.

Oh look

"There were streams of people - small groups, families - walking to vote, people en masse. ... I'll never forget it," he recalled. "American and coalition forces should be proud because their sacrifices have allowed this to happen."

"There's a lot to be done. ... People were honest. People don't like foreign troops in their country, but they understand they can't do it without American presence now. That's the one area people had consensus on,"

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/13425143.htm

http://www.electionworld.org/iraq.htm

"I do not want to say we have achieved the big breakthrough we were looking for," said a Western diplomat who has tracked Iraq's nascent democracy and relentless insurgency over the last year. "This is going to be a long process. But yesterday was definitely a step forward."

"For those who were saying they have been marginalized and excluded from political life, this pretext for terrorism no longer exists," declared Jalaluddin Saghir in his sermon at the Bratha Mosque in Baghdad.

Pragmatists caution that Thursday's election, with its greater Sunni participation, would not by itself halt the Sunni-led insurgency or prompt the United States to start withdrawing troops.

Yet Western officials, Iraqi politicians and many voters say enough was different about this election to suggest that it could mark a turning point.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraq17dec17,1,5884744.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true

It is unlikely that you will [or will ever] acknowledge half of what is really going on ..
I take on board what you are saying , but have to view it with the hyperbolic rhetoric and failure to remove yourself from the massive 'conspiracy' you have constructed in your mind to perpetuate your POV..

On the other hand..

You may be right , but i won't be swamped by your POV and logic.
It takes all kinds of POVs to make a clear view of the world.. So i can't dismiss your point [even if i wish]..

 

Little eichmans..hahahaha get over yourself already.

Its thanks too people like yourself Hippiewise and Skip that i have the POV i have..... and i deffinitly am not in denial or have i been brainwashed..

 

I said get over yourself..because you are being over dramatic .. and a bit pompous.. this is not really anything about if you like you for being that way.. thats the way you seemed to be, so i said 'get over yourself'... This phrase can be interpreted in many ways..but i was trying my best to be squirmyfriendlyfeely


I am not on any of the drugs you have mentioned in the threads you have posted recently concerning me...i may need some meds..but i am not on any at the moment.