I like soldiers.

are yer gonna answer those questions ? ......

 

Christ.


It always the decent into the playground isn't it.


Just because we don't agree, doesn't make anyone a moron or a shit or a dunce or whatever.

Lets just all have a chat about this bloody war and try and get to the bottom of it all.

 

dont i just "that why i try and avoid payin them .

 

goin back and reediting your posts " clever insane " give yer that one .....:H and the reason for that is to make you look clever ? . just out of interest -do you ever go into chatroom ? would like to have a discussion with you there ....thing is tho you would"nt be able to go back and edit your words there tho would you . maybe thats why you dont visit chatroom . ....newspapers thats it "newspapers can edit what they like .

 

I believe it is the majority of troops out in Iraq who have acted well. (As 'well', as you can in a war.)

War can drive men to do things they would not normally do. I do not believe it is possible to fully comprehend what it is like out there, unless you have been.

We therefore have to rely on the media, and the internet to try and get an idea, and an impression of what it is like in Iraq.

This of course causes a few problems.

For example. When the Daily Mirror visited my brothers base in Iraq, after they had published the fake abuse pictures. They would not travel out on patrol with the soliders, in order to write their newspaper report. They instead used photographs supplied by the MOD - and interviewed soliders on base.

And yet - they feel fully qualified to pass judgement on the Military - when they are not even willing to travel out and actually see the streets of Iraq, to actually see real Iraqs, and to actually see the soliders at work.

Now, I understand that this is only one incident. But from what I can gather it is quite widespread.

I do not deny that abuse is carried out by soliders in Iraq - but I think the level of abuse is reported as much higher than it is.

My brother was often approached while on guard by local Iraq's. Saying that they wished to make a complaint that a British Solider had raped their daughter - or damaged their house, or killed a family member etc.

They would be interviewed by the Military Police, and 9 times out of 10, records would show that their were no patrols or troop movements in that area. It is a weapon of the insurgents. They pay these locals to make false reports. The reason being it takes up soliders time, because all claims must be investigated, and they know that if word gets to the press of 'alleged' abuse - it will most likely be reported in the media the next day.

This serves the insurgents purpose of trying to get the Army out of the country, and turn public opinion further against the Govenment and the Military.

And it serves the Media well - because a report of abuse makes good copy, and sells more papers.

From speaking to local Iraq's while out on patrol - my brother found that the majority of people he spoke to were glad that the invasion had toppled Saddam. They did complain that things had got worse - but they also hoped things would eventually get better.

Right now - pulling the troops out would not make things any better. Yes - no one would be killed by allied troops anymore. But, just as many would be killed in the fighting afterwards as insurgents battled for control of the country.

 

good post up for dicussion "but need some shuteye right now . will give thoughts later .

 

oh insane just realised you went back and edited those two questions i asked you to answer . patience is certainly a virtue .

 

i'm sure that i have never heard of civillian attrocities being carried out in the name of war in the "art of war". sun tzu by my impression sees the captured civillian as an asset. the art of war is to - "capture all under heaven" this includes people and land.

british troops would be aware of the geneva convention, those troops not abiding by the geneva convention must face court martial. forcing out people into deep water to drown at gunpoint for a joke is a violation of the geneva convention. britain has stopped prosecuting their own war criminals because the government knows that the presence of their troops in iraq is itself illegal. i'm sure the UN had something to say about the axis of invading states doing what they did. hitler didn't like the UN (the league of nations then) and he more or less treated the UN in the same way as the axis of invading states.

we are without realising it in a third world war. how can i say this? well by the american presidents own words "you are with us or against us" , this has created two opposing sides. thoses living by UN charter are pitted against an axis of invading states. the purpose of these states is to capture the oil reserves, the iraqi people are an obstacle to this, they were always going to do this regardless of who was in power.. those states who resist invading legions are immediately against the US, thier peoiple must be taken prisoner and tortured, they must be poisoned and blown to pieces.

their are clear rules for most things in human activities , why because chaos ensues, never ending battles, fire, pestilence, plague and famine. everyone gets affected by bad decisions the CIA calls this blow back.

getting back to the art of war. sun tzu says having a responsible government is helpful too. having people in positions of responsibility who are responsible is a necessity. in the age of warring states that the art of war comes from there wasn't much responsibility, sun tzu was one of the generals for hire. and after the witnessing all the carnage (for generals then were at least not too far from the frontline- they would have to see the battle at first hand) the book starts with the warning that it is actually alot easier , cheaper and less stressful all round if war didn't happen in the first place.

 

Why should a grunt, someone who has likely been serving a handful of years or less, be allowed to second guess a commander who has been doing his job for probably decades?

There are soldiers like this, and they have a name: stuckup smartasses. You don't join the Armed Forces thinking that you're going to control it all your first day on the job (I doubt those people even make it through basic training).


Obviously you have either similar or no military experience.

 

Civilian deaths occur in all wars.
Why don't you condemn the terrorists for killing 3,000 plus civilians on September 11th, 2001?

You have no idea what you're talking about. World War II consisted of all-out fighting in each of the world's most "civilised" and industrialised countries.

How come then the U.S. has not yet invaded France, or Iran, or North Korea?

 

i clicked "reply" without having yet read your response.

 

No, you dumbass. Don't be so friggin literal. Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen are all trained to act independantly, as well as there being the whole "Human' being thing that many people like you forget about. Really, if you think about it, the only people who really protest over war are people who've never been there. Serving your country isn't a job for people who take it seriously (i.e. lifers), its a way of life. Their just doing what they know how to do, like a mailman, or a cook.

 

No, they're trained to act interdependently. Or, you could just as well say that they're trained to not think at all, which is more like it.

 

i was refering to the original quotation of "the art of war". i was refering to the art of war, as sun tzu saw the civillian populace as one to treat as property that needed to be tended. the civillian populace was seen as a valuable asset, destroying it defeated the object of war which is to capture all under heaven. i'm not sure why you have linked this to my reference to sun tzu and sep 11.

world war is explanatory in itself world - as in global, war as in conflict. the "war on terrorism" is now happening in all lands. i believe that george bush himself believes this to be true too (i read recently that he believes this to be true), as an true believer maybe you could tell me how he is wrong. the term world war X isn't a trade mark and exclusive to warring parties of a strict squabble between a few countries.

i'm sure that if you look through your history books you'll find out that america has indeed invaded these countries using their military forces.

 

back to name calling eh "oh dear oh dear oh dear .your not even clever at talking the talk "never mind walking the walk.

 

lower than dogs ? dogs are quite intelligent and very loyal "so thanks for the compliment . i can be very civil when talking to adults . editing that post ?should"nt that be all of your posts ( self denial) aye insane you might grow out of it when you become a man . so how long will it be before you enlist ?

 

Everyone involved in the this violence should be held accountable. Many of the military support services have been outsourced to Haliburton and Carlyle. In many instances they are calling the shots, and issues orders to those under their supervision. They should be held accountable. Just because you wear a uniform doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a hired gun. And with this US Administration, you are not necessarily performing according to the Geneva Conventions. And Haliburton and Carlyle and their contractors should be held to moral and ethical laws as well.

 

Whatever Saddam had done he had done over a decade before, during the first Bush's administration. We were there at that time, we could have removed him then...why didn't we? But now those same crimes are felt to justify a long term war....what changed?

His administration was virtually crippled from doing more atrocities through sanctions and world opinion, but under the sanctions in place at the time, Haliburton and Carlyle couldn't take control. Who is more responsible for what has happenned? How many Iraqi civilians have we killed in comparison?

 

Paul, you are a single-minded, argumentive asshole who cannot truely be happy unless he is pissing someone else off. Schoolboy taunts is something i expect out of a schoolboy, or a Democrat. If you're gonna argue a point, at least take the time to back it up and try to sound like your more than a 6 year old.