I stand with Israel

I was raised Jewish myself, and this has nothing to do with the "religion" of it. The Torah cannot be used to justify what has happened to the Palistinian people, no one had a right to take their country away whatever it says in an old book.

 

Don't blame Jews or Israel for that...

Talk to the British, or the Turks, or the dozens of other people who have conquered that piece of land many many times.

The so called "Palestinian people" did not exist before 1948.

Maybe you should take up an issue with Israel's Arab neighbors, who refused to accept Palestinian refugees even though they had the space and resources to support them.

 

you clearly have no grasp on the history of Israel. People seem to miss the influence of the British empire in the Palestinian displacement, and blame Israel. Look, the Arabs have more than a dozen countries to call home, Israel is a tiny strip of land, with a few million citizens. Who really stole who's homeland?

 

For all of the standing by Israel thing the country progresses against it's wisdom heritage. The Paletinians live side by side in many regions now, and then there are countless many other natonalities besides the barely over 50% Jewish population. So it seems all the time that America threatens Arab populations elsewhere and this prompts the threat at the Jewish population here. The answer was always Begin's answer to make the issue more ideologically complex for the effective regression of economic results for everybody.


But for you people money makes the world go round.:cheers2:

 

What? I cant make heads or tails of this, but that last part is very Anti-semitic, so Ill assume your ignorant and disregard what you have to say.

 

I will wait for the madness to subside now. Long live the King.

 

If the Arabs had accepted the UN Partition of 1948 everything would have been fine. They keep trying to destroy Israel so they keep losing wars. All of Israel and the occupied territories are less than 1% of all Arab territory. Let the Jews have it, and settle the Palestinians elsewhere. It is almost amusing that tiny Israel keeps defeating the entire Arab world.

 

No, Israel isn't defeating them. The US and Britain are using Israel to their own advantage. I really question the sincerity of the American right-wing Zionism and in actuality, it has little to do with the well-being of the Jewish people. And it's easy to think that Israel did everything possible for peace, and the big bad Arabs wouldn't put down their guns. But it's simply not true that everyone is at fault except Israel. This would be hugely oversimplifying the situation. It irritates me that people would say "there are dozens of Arab countries for them to go to." These are real people you're talking about. Maybe try and learn to have some understanding for other people.

I'm Jewish and I don't stand with Israel. But you can still stand with Israel and admit that Israel isn't perfect.

 

Otherwise it would not have the Right to exist, and also the right to defend this Existence. Maybe, I should travel there, and find out if the agriculture and the commercial values are hip with the ancient civilization? Now, I feel I'm beginning to question my Catholic faith over that issue of it's spirituality.

In the early days after 9/11 there were serious bitter individualistic responses to the fear against Jihad. One would wonder if jihad shouldhave to mean so much in the beautiful city of Jerusalem.

Now it's been at least six years, a whole time of the second world war since then. It appears that the jewish state has abdridged it's right for the new Right of defence onto the ruthless way of Revenge. Heck, the trip of the newest peace settlement.. I'd like to stand for Israel, but it just is a means to return in history realms unknown to God's values.

God's values are now in the new Millenium. Maybe there is something alive in those ancient tombs and buildings.

 

The "right to exist" on the basis that it was promised by God is not much of an excuse.
I don't want to turn this into a theological thing, but if that's where you're going then okay..
God didn't just give us Israel unconditionally. In return, we're supposed to be following his commandments. Are you saying that Israel has never broken the "thou shalt not kill" commandment, and has therefore been perfect? "Do not kill" cannot be interpreted as "kill sometimes." It doesn't say that the end justifies the means. If we have to kill people to protect Israel, then God hasn't given us Israel. I don't think any country with nuclear weapons has made a sincere promise not to kill. If these are "God's values," then Israel is Jewish jihad. All of this "chosen people" crap only creates a disgusting attitude of Jewish supremacy.

Although, when I hear someone being anti-Semitic, I get very defensive and take a (socialist) pro-Israel stance.

I'm not going to say that Israel shouldn't exist. All I'm saying is that it's necessary to look at both sides, and to consider the ethics of the situation from a more neutral standpoint; if we firmly believe that Israel is always perfect and the Arabs are the bad guys, we are pushing away any chance we have for peace.

 

I would rather discuss the more obvious imperfections of the Palestinians. If they had any political savvy they would abjure violence in favor of non-violent civil disobedience. Can you imaging the effect of Palestinians peacefully lying down in front of bulldozers that were building new Jewish settlements in the West Bank? It would stop the Israelis in their tracks. Non-violent civil disobedience only works with a moral adversary, and the Israelis are certainly that. Instead, the Palestinians persist in a violent conflict they cannot win, and that is likely to end with them being expelled from the occupied territories.

The United States does not win any advantage by supporting Israel. It would be in our interest to support the Arabs because they have oil, and Isreal does not. We support Israel because we love Israel. I know I do, and I am not even Jewish.

 

Israel will not know peace until after the great war.

Jews are in the same position as the German people were during the Nazi occupation of their country. Germans were hated as a people for the actions of a few.

Israel is hated for the actions of a few radical zionists. The US is hated for the exact same reason. The pro Israel zionists in our own government.

Life was less complicated before the arrival of Theodor Herzl, the Jewish Osama.



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We all recognize that Palestinians have done some very terrible things. I don't question that at all. As you said, it's more obvious.

You fail to make the distinction between Palestinians and Islamic extremists. Yes, a very small minority of Palestinians are blowing themselves up. 99% of Palestinian civilians do not support that kind of violence.

Using your logic, you could say that as a Christian, you should hate all Jews because a group of very angry Jewish people killed Jesus. Is this reason to blame the Jewish people as a whole? Was the entire Jewish population at fault? No.

"I would rather discuss..." can be paraphrased as "I don't want to discuss something that may challenge my views, so let's change the subject."

 

99% of Palestianians don't support that kind of action, yet they somehow votes Hamas, a terrorist group that does not support Israel's right to exist, into leading their country.

You need to get your facts straight, kiddo.

 

Can you document your assertion that 99% of Palestinians oppose suicide bombers?

The Jews did not kill Jesus. The Romans did because they feared he would start an insurrection against Rome. A few Jewish quislings went along because they did not want to provoke Roman retaliation. The Roman method of capital punishment was crucifixion. The Jewish method was stoning.

In the events leading up to the crucifixion the Roman's were on edge. The Gospel of St. Mark 15:7 states that there had recently been an insurrection: "And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection."

The Gospel of St. John 18:14 says, "Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people."

Caiaphas was the Jewish High Priest. He, and the Romans, knew that many Jews believed that Jesus was descended form King David, and that they called Jesus "the King of the Jews." Caiaphas thought it was better that Jesus die than that the Romans kill hundreds of thousands of Jews because of the recent insurrection.

 

No country is perfect. The United States certainly is not. Because Israel has always been one mistake away from annihiliation I am tolerant of Israeli imperfections. The only question I ask in judging Israeli behavior is: "Will this make Israel safer?"

When the Israelis gave the Palestinians control of the Gaza Strip the Palestinians began shoting rockets at them. I am confident the same thing will happen if the Israelis give up control of the West Bank or the Golan Heights.

 

I'm NOT tolerant of Israeli imperfections.

Abuse of human rights is abuse of human rights. Period. There is no excuse.

And as long Israel gets money from the US taxpayer, they're going to get an earful from me about it.

And with any luck, the US taxpayer will come to understand what they fund.

When they do, watch the cracks appear in public support of Israel.

The sooner we tear down this "Holy Land" facade and expose the rot beneath it, the better the world will sleep at night.





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The fact that so many Jews are troubled by Israeli treatment of the Palestinians illustrates the moral superiority of the Jews. How many Arabs are troubled by Arab treatment of the Jews since the establishment of Israel? I am unaware of any. When Israel was established in 1948 there were pograms throughout the Arab world. Jews that could not flee were killed. I am waiting for any Arabs at all to express regret about that.

 

Moral superiority of the Jews?

I suppose you want a homeland based on racial purity too?

That too, is ongoing in it's attempt.

Don't need to ship people off the the camps by train this time. Just crowd them into Gaza and let God sort them out. Right?


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Most countries in the world are pretty much "Racially pure". Israel has already made many Arabs citizens. They even allow Arabs who oppose the state of Israel to serve in the Knesset... how much more liberal could you possibly get?

Hundreds of thousands of Arabs live inside Israel and aren't getting kicked out. They do not have to pay taxes, and still benefit from all of the privileges of living in a civilized nation.