I stand with Israel

And this I'm aware of. South Africa had black people. Didn't save them from being branded an apartheid state.

It still doesn't excuse the human rights violations, which are numerous and frequent and ongoing.

Even Jimmy Carter calls Israel an apartheid nation.



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How about you try and see it from another angle...

You live in extreme poverty, and conditions are awful. You have the choice to vote for a party that will provide (somewhat) decent social programs. They will provide schools, hospitals, welfare, etc... you could probably turn a blind eye to the bad things the party is doing, since you priority for you is your family's well-being.

It's really easy to say that if you were in that situation, you would still support Israel, when you're sitting at a computer and have more than adequate living conditions.

So of course they're not so thrilled to be living in a Jewish state. If I were an Arab living in Palestine, I don't think I would support Israel. I wouldn't support killing civilians, but I wouldn't want to live in a Jewish state.

I didn't say that the Palestinians don't support Hamas. What I said is that most Palestinians aren't in favour of blowing people up. Should I hate all you Americans because you voted for a war-mongering president?

I agree with xexon...Israel is an apartheid state.

 

You're a mindless fanatic.

 

Few people in the territories live in "extreme poverty". You've ever been to the territories? It ain't that bad there. They got restaurants, cinemas, and even casinos! Some people do live in refugee camps, yet those are a result of their banishment from other Arab lands, and mostly not from Israel.

The Fatah is the more socially progressive party in the Palestinian Authority. The Hamas were not the choice one would go for if they wanted a focus on schools, hospitals, and such.

No one is forcing them to live in a Jewish state. All Israeli really wants is to be able to leave them the fuck alone as long as they stop bombing things.

Look at the current cease-fire. Israel is still being bombed, but it's so damn tolerant that it's withholding troops and even opening up the boarder in a desperate attempt to encourage PEACE.

A vote for Hamas is a direct vote for violence. Bush's platform does not revolve around an ideal for a Jew-less world, ethnic cleansing, or the direct murder of innocents. People did not vote for Bush because of the war to begin with, and well... I can go on and on about this. Point being... your analogy is beyond terrible.

You're really not a dumb guy unlike many people who post here. I've read other posts of yours on this forum and I know for a fact that you're intelligent, which is why I actually bother with you and write this somewhat lengthy reply.

You may be too young to have dealt with anti-semitism, yet even I have felt my own share of it... only being some years older than you. People will always hate Jews... Jews are easy to hate. You should be happy to know that you at least have somewhere to run away to incase another bunch of idiots decides to kill you for your ethnicity. Jews are only so ethnically united because we are constantly singled out by our ethnicity. You have to realize that WWII only happened not that long ago. Imagine it... the genocide of your people for no reason... not so long ago. It's nice to think that it won't happen again, but this is not a pretty world. Even this forum, a rather liberal one, has its own share of anti-semites...

 

im from there =] but i live in florida. and im not jewish

 

Whatever...you're probably right...there's no point arguing. Trying to defend Hamas is a very weak argument. But even if the Palestinians had entirely equal legal rights, they will always be treated like second-class citizens by Jews. The two groups won't mix, and I get the impression that you'd rather Jews and Arabs remained separate. I haven't been to Israel, so I really don't know what it's like there. My parents don't feel much connection to Israel and never supported it. My brother went to an orthodox school before highschool and he strongly hates Israel...he insists he's not a Jew. My grandparents are sending him all this crap about why Jews are superior to Arabs in an attempt to get him to support Israel. Most of the Zionists I know are very right-wing, racist, and ignorant.
Rubin, you've made some good points. You haven't totally changed my mind, but I'm going to learn more about it before I form an opinion...

I haven't dealt with any serious anti-Semitism. Mostly it's been idiotic highschool kids who think it's cool to be fascists. Also, my now-ex-girlfriend's father hated me and my family for being Jewish, which was difficult. It's never been anything I can't handle, and the people are all pretty harmless.

Why do you think Jews are so easy to hate?

 

Those who hate Jews hate them because the Jews are so clearly superior, and they resent them. Hatred of Jews is the socialism of the gutter.

(I am not Jewish or I would not say these things, but everyone knows that what I say is true.)

 

But over there in Jerusalem it is worked at now and again for the FELLOWMAN and sometimes for the progress of even goodness.

Killing is not compassionate, ... what can one do now?

 

Detail why you think Jews are superior to anyone else.

And while you're at it, Google Edomite Jews.


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No one treats Palestinians or arabs as second class citizens, they only impose that treatment upon themselves as they refuse to acknowledge the mere existence of Israel and exhibit blind racism towards Jews.

I would rather have Arabs and Jews separated though, because that would lead to much less conflict. You can be all idealistic thinking that everyone can live together, but sadly they can't. I will also easily say that this is the Arab's fault, not the Jews'. (Even though there are a few exceptions... take orthodox Jews per example, those people are complete idiots)

I bet that you don't know many fanatic Muslims... you will be amazed at their ignorance, even compared to the most ignorant Zionist. Talk to a Christian Palestinian someday if you ever meet one... they hate Muslim Palestinians even more than the Jews do!

I'm glad that you've never had to face any antisemitism and that your relatives were smart enough or wealthy enough to be able to move to America early on. You're one of the lucky ones.


Jews are easy to hate because we are successful and different.

 

Your superiority complex is your undoing. This is the very thing that damns you to the rest of the world.

There is no such thing as a superior race or a chosen people.

I have issues with anyone claiming otherwise.

Had I been alive then, I would have issues with Nazis. But in the modern day, radical zionism are the new nazis. Radical Islam was born as a response to them and their influence over the west. Just like the hippies were a response to clean-cut, white bread America.

A nation built on an idea of racial/religious purity will not stand. It has to be propped up with force.

I have choice words for the Saudis as well, so don't think I'm not an equal opportunity hunter of evildoers.


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I in no way claim superiority to anyone because I'm Jewish.

Radical Islam has existed for hundreds of years.

You are extremely ignorant. Please take your bigotry and hatred out of this forum, which is meant for the discussion of Judaism.

This is the last time I will address you.

 

Radical zionism has only been around a little over 100 years. Look at the damage it's done. Israel has paid the price for it in blood too.

It's NOT a part of Judaism. and that's my whole point.

You don't realize it yet, but I'm actually doing what I do for the Jewish people as well as the rest of the world, so you can hold off on your charges of bigotry and hatred.

Stand with Israel if you want, but do it for the right reasons.

Right now, anything you do on behalf of Israel will be used to further an agenda that endangers the very people you love. These kinds of zionists don't care about the people, only power. They consider the masses that have immigrated there to be expendable when the time comes.


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Everyone should hug now.

 

And I just had a shower after a bike ride.

I'll bring the instructions for a Wesson oil party. Ya'll got take off those Stars of David though. Too pokey.


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My relatives got out of Europe just in time. My dad's family moved from Lithuania and the Ukraine to South Africa in the '20s because their families were being murdered there. My great-grandmother stopped believing in God when she saw all these people being shot. They went with nothing and ended up being fairly successful in South Africa, though it was very dangerous...they moved in the early 60s to Belfast, (where my dad was born). Right before the troubles. So they went to Ottawa in '73 (I think...) and it's been okay here. My mom's side moved from Warsaw and Chenstechover (town in Poland) to Toronto sometime in the '20s. If they had stayed there any longer, they probably wouldn't have had the chance to leave...even in Canada, they were really poor and faced a lot of anti-Semitism, but of course that was nothing compared to what would have happened if they didn't leave.

QUOTE=xexon;4471796]
Had I been alive then, I would have issues with Nazis. But in the modern day, radical zionism are the new nazis. Radical Islam was born as a response to them and their influence over the west. Just like the hippies were a response to clean-cut, white bread America.[/QUOTE]

Radical anything is rarely a good thing. I do have issues with Israel, but to compare Zionists to Nazis is just absurd. Islamic extremists have been around since Islam began. I don't even think there is a comparison with hippies.

 

Careful. You're treading around the shores of lake Self Hating Jew. I hear this about as often as I hear anti-semite from those who seem to think their opinion matters.


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Is that directed at me?

 

Yes, with a grin.

The more radical elements of Judaism would train you to hate yourself if you don't share their hatred of others.

Always be on your guard of this.


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Zionism has little to do with current Israel. This is a new generation of people who were already born in Israel or migrated into it when they were young. These people just want to exist.

Yeah, interesting family history there. Not too surprised to hear about antisemitism in Canada, the British used to have a whole lot of laws against Jews, and the French still pretty much hate Jews.

I know exactly what you mean about feeling closer to Jews and such. It's pretty much the only cultural background any of us have in this modern world. It's a sense of belonging to something. There is nothing really to belong to culturally these days... nothing that's so rich, deep, and real. Goyim (to use an amusing term), especially in America, cannot comprehend this sense of cultural identity since they grew up without it. Their grandparents or such may still have some sort of cultural heritage in them, yet even that's not completely likely in this country. A political and social system that's so obsessively centered upon the individual leaves no room for group achievement.

I might be going off track here a bit, so I'll go back on track... Feeling closer to Jews is something natural, and something that you should cherish. Don't let any politically correct idiots who think that the idea of a country based on a single culture is racist in some way ever let you question that feeling.