I stand with Israel

One of the things I love about Judaism is that there is no single right opinion. It's open to interpretation, and individual thought is encouraged. I don't agree with the more radical elements of Judaism. I don't feel a lot of pressure to share that hatred.
My brother, on the other hand, is most definitely a self-hating Jew. 4 years at an orthodox school made him hate Judaism. He ridicules the traditions and says that he's not a Jew.
I don't share the hatred in radical Judaism and I don't hate myself for it either. Just like I don't hate myself for believing that men and women are equal, even though an orthodox Jew would disagree.

 

"Zionism has little to do with current Israel".

I see I'm not the only tripe salesman on the block today.



x

 

Rubin, did you ever live in Israel or anything?

 

Shows how much you know...


Free speech is wasted on people like you.

 

7 years, and many summers afterwards.

 

So...
No hugging, I guess?

Because no one did...
Hmm.

 

The Arabs will never defeat Israel. The Jews will always out think them.

 

"Your superiority complex is your undoing. This is the very thing that damns you to the rest of the world."

- xexon



Hey xexon! The truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

BSR, much as I agree with you (in part at least) on the Israel vs Palestine debate. You have to admit, claiming racial superiority is hardly a step in the right direction is it? I wouldn't say anti-semetism is drawn from any races superiority to any other. I would say that it has an origin in the militant christianity of the dark ages, during which (and many centuries after in a lot of countries, Britain included), Jews were only allowed to make money from money, thus creating the Shylock image which is still used in a lot of anti-semetic cartoons etc. I'd also say the other cause for it would be the isolationism of many jewish sects, leading to a secretive appearance, and to the paranoid, secretive = evil.

I don't believe the issue is as blanket as Israelis = good, Palestinians = evil. Nothing ever is, the only problem is, by creating a neo-apartheid system (as you seem to advocate), you add to the hatred. The same argument, (with different nationalities) was, and still is, prevalent in South Africa. Not only that, there is a comparison, the Boers in South Africa were persecuted by the British, concentration camps originated in the Anglo-Boer war. They did, and still do, feel that they deserve a separate state to the Black South Africans, partly due to the hate that they still get from them, and partly due to them interpreting that hatred as jealousy due to their superiority.

 

Never did I claim racial superiority. If you carefully read my posts you will find that I claimed that I don't think that I'm better than anyone else simply because I'm Jewish. I did claim cultural identity though, which in my opinion is extremely important.

Anyhow... antisemitism goes WAY back before the dark ages.

A black South Africa is already practically achieved, apartheid has ended. The South African people actually wanted to live together with the British/Dutch... I support a separate state because the Palestinians simply refuse to live in peace with Israel, no matter what.

But you're right, it's not as simple as Israel = Good, Palestinians = Bad..... yet you do not realize how fundamental of a religion Islam is. I can tell you this right now... radical Islam = As bad as it gets.

 

"Jews are easy to hate because we are successful and different" came pretty close, but I get your point.

Believe me, I have no love for political or fundamentalist islam (or political or fundamentalist religion in any form), and do agree with you that fundamentalist islam is by far the worst of the bunch that are around at the moment. But the problem is beyond religious divisions, there are plenty of militant secular Palestinian groups. In said groups, it's has become a sense of Arab Nationalism. the problem with the idea that all palestinians want to destroy israel that the more it is said, the more it becomes true. The hatred has built up over generations and will keep doing so beyond the point when people will remember it's origin. All they will see is the border wall, a symbol of segregation and defeatism and as far as I can tell, as long as that wall stands, there probably never will be peace in the middle east. It obviously cannot be taken down now, but gradually peace needs to be achieved, rather than just attempting to stop all chances of reconciliation.

Edit: I should have added that as long as the border wall AND radical/political islam exist then there will be no peace in the middle east.

 

So. Nobody wants to discuss radical zionism?

Difficult subject for most because the western media has a blind spot concerning it. Consequently, few people even know about it or how it works.

This is what's parading itself as the champion of world Judaism these days. They use religion to further a political agenda. They come wearing the robes of religion while they have a sword hidden beneath those robes.

The story of the Trojan Horse applies here.



x

 

The wall is a necessity and is not going anywhere. It's protecting innocent lives from terrorists, as simple as that. It, together with the checkpoints, has been extremely successful. You do not get these news in America, but the Israeli army reports every suicide bomber that it stops, and they try to go in almost daily. There would have been a lot more Israelis dead, and as a result... a lot more sanctions on the Palestinians, if it wasn't for that wall.

It is completely irrelevant in the peace process. I hope that they keep on building it and building it higher as long as the Palestinians refuse peace.

(Not saying that all Palestinians hate Israel or anything silly like that)

 

It has saved lives, that is true. But it's a case of wallpapering up the cracks with some rather horrible looking wallpaper. If you'll pardon the awful metaphor.

If you stick a fuckass big wall between two places, it's not gonna make either side get along better. It reinforces the idea of segregation and division, and once radical islam has chilled the fuck out, so to speak, it should be removed.

 

You can't possibly expect radical Islam to chill the fuck out, do you?

Those people would kill me, without knowing a single thing about it, just because I'm Jewish.

Can you possibly get more crazy than that?

The wall is a good thing, and at this point segregation is a good thing for both peoples.

 

Eventually I expect it to, yep. Just like radical christianity and all the many radical forms of religion before it. Eventually, secularism will wash through the middle east. Probably not in either of our lifetimes. But it'll go the way every radicalised religion.

 

And not soon enough for me.


x

 

...eventually some comic figure will just shit out a turd the size of Texas (and it will ironically fall on Texas), and the fumes will kill us all.

In other words... you cannot base current political and military actions, especially if they are meant to protect your innocent civilians on such speculations as "militant Islam will end eventually"...

 

You can attempt to speed up it's process though. Things like the border wall and the Lebanese conflict serve to give islamofascists like Hezbullah and Hamas enough ammo to indoctrinate more generations into their zealous violence. In a metaphorical sense, israel is the kid with the short temper, the others try and piss him off till he snaps and lashes out. Therefore reinforcing the behavior. I'm not saying Israel shouldn't defend it's self. But it should maintain a policy of using as limited force as it possibly can and resolving things diplomatically with groups rather than attempting to eradicate them. Like they've managed with the PLO. Say what you like, but it's infinitely easier to stir people to violence with the image of an off course missile hitting a school than it is with one of two people signing a treaty.

Israel can also try and help along groups fighting for secularism in Palestine and other arabic nations, most likely through indirect donations.

 

I couldn't disagree more. I think that Israel is using way to little force to begin with. Israel is way too humanitarian, and I personally think that it should stop worrying about trying to avoid casualities. The people who house terrorists are no more innocent than the terrorists themselves. Israel reacts way too much to international pressure. Israel could have won the war in Lebanon in a day if it wanted to, yet it decided to wage a humanitarian war effort, unlike the Hizzbolah...

All Israel ever tries is Diplomacy, it's always the first option. Barack, one of our worse presidents... and the current minister of defense once offered the Palestinians half of Jerusalem, and pre-1967 borders, yet they still refused.

There is no negotiating with terrorists whose entire lives are based around destroying you. Every single peace treaty Israel has ever had with the Palestinians was broken by the Palestinians.

At a certain point you learn to realize that these people do not want to negotiate. Rockets are falling of Shderot as we speak, yet Israel still desperately tries to maintain a cease fire which has been broken dozen of times by Palestinians within the last day or two...

Israel does support the Fatah, and has open diplomatic talks with the party, which is not secular, yet a tad less fundamental.