I stand with Israel

One major theological difference between Judaism/Christianity and Islam is that the Qu'ran is believed to be the direct word of Allah, so nobody can question it no matter what. Jews and Christians can interpret the religion as they choose. More moderate Muslims can keep their religion, but adapt it into modern civilized society...they're not a problem. So the religion isn't inherently bad. Then there are the extremists who don't make the distinction between Muhammad's jihad 1400 years ago and jihad now. They believe that it is their duty to serve Allah by violently defending their religion. This is not something they'll change their mind about. There are radical Zionists, but they haven't taken it as far as using children as suicide bombers to kill civilians. Israel has used a real military. The soldiers wear uniforms and intend to kill only terrorists (although sometimes there can be excessive collateral damage). I do think that secularism will spread there EVENTUALLY. But it'll mostly spread among the moderate Muslims. Some extremists won't give up their position, even though they won't have much support from anybody.

The wall may be necessary, but there are some ethical issues as well. I've read about how it makes it very difficult for a lot of peaceful Palestinians to get to work. Every time the border is closed, they're out of work. The wall should probably stay, but they could try to keep it more open to non-violent Palestinians. I shouldn't make this point, since I don't know what kind of a system there is now..

 

Sure ain't easy to distinguish between a violent and a non-violent Palestinian though...

 

A system giving them passes (if they have a job) might help to some extent. It could still be heavily enforced and secure.

 

Such a system already exists.

It works, yet soldiers still have to search their cars and such... like any other border crossing.

Who knows who can be hiding in the trunk...

All in all, it's not hard for a decent honest Palestinian worker to get into Israel.

 

In Israel, is it very hard to distinguish between a Jew and an Arab if you just see them on the street? Do Israeli Arabs speak Hebrew?

 

What course of action would you suggest? Flail heavy handily around the middle east till every arabic state declares war? There is only so much Israel can handle, whether Ahmydinnerjacket has nukes or not and no matter how high you build a wall, rockets'll still fly over. The problem with the peace process is that a lot of the military action is from splinter militia groups, which is the same problem attempting to wipe militants out by force. You can't win a war against guerilla fighters, the more you fight, the more popular they become. Unless Israel actually 'earns' its evil reputation by nuking every other state in the middle east. Aggression won't solve the problem. The only way is to bide it's time, acting purely in self defence and allowing radical islam to slowly die out.

 

Nah, they're extremely easy to distinguish. Hell, I can point any Jew out in America...

Israeli Arabs rarely speak Hebrew, but most speak enough basic Hebrew to get by. They have their own cities which are separate from the Israeli ones. They do not want to integrate into Israeli life even though the Israeli government has tried to do everything to make it possible for them.

 

Where in America do you live, anyway?

 

That's extremely silly.

Just sit and wait until Israel is completely wiped out? I can guarantee that if Israel just waits in "self-defense", it will be wiped out before radical Islam dies out. You can quote me on that a million times.

What do I suggest doing? Have a full out offensive against all the militant groups. Warn the citizens in advance, and provide them with supplies and humanitarian aid as they leave the areas. Then... bomb the shit out of everything that's terrorist related, and kill each and every single one of them off.

Sounds drastic, doesn't it? A reality in which you have to result to war is a very sad one... welcome to the real world.

Nuke Iran if it ever develops nuclear weapons, because they will nuke Israel on the first chance they get. To prevent such a catastrophe, eliminate Iran's nuclear enrichment program... by any means necessary.

Impose political sanctions on Syria and bomb supply shipment routes to the Hizzbollah day and night.

Re-Occupy Southern Lebanon by extreme force. Secure the area, make sure that every guerrilla fighter is out, and then retreat and return the land to the Lebanese people after the UN supervises Lebanon's next election.

Evacuate the Israeli cities which are prone to rocket attacks, and establish temporary camps for the citizens.

All of this should only happen if diplomacy fails to work. None of this should be done too soon, mostly because Olmert is an incapable PM and cannot lead a good offensive, and because the Arabs deserve a last chance to stop the blind hate before they are taught peace the hard way.

 

I'm currently in Florida.

 

I think most of the people who claim to support Israel know little about its history or the people who played a role in its creation. There is a reason why Israel is located where it is, and it has nothing to do with the Old Testament. There are strategic reasons for Israel being where it is, just like there are reasons for the Mossad motto being "with clandestine terrorism we will conduct war."

It's rather amazing that so many Jews are secular, but they won't think twice about supporting Israel when its creation caused so much death and suffering (and continues to today) on the Palestinian people, all over something that was written thousands of years ago for political purposes.

 

And let's face it, most of you people who think you are Jewish are really Khazars. 85-90% of the world's Jews are not Semitic.

 

Whatever you might believe led to the creation of Israel is completely irrelevant to the current situation in Israel. The fact is that the Jewish people are there, they are there to stay, and they will fight against the people who are trying to kick them out for terrorism.

This has nothing to do with silly government conspiracies, US military strategies, world governments, mythical Biblical prophecies, or past land ownership rights.

 

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769

Now stop quoting idiotic 19th century based theories.

 

BraveSirRubin, i agree w/ you 90% ... Islamic Extremists don't deserve a last chance in my opinion. They'll never change.

 

BSR... none of the other countries have the potential to wipe out Israel. Now you're just mindlessly regurgitating the bullshit fear-mongering the media puts out. Israel is the one with the weapons and the nukes and the air power and the power to oppress and murder tens of thousands of people. Not Iran, not Syria, not Lebanon.

 

Ah, still no hugging yet?

 

Not until after the coming world war. This fuse is already lit.

Sane people should start to run.

When Israel goes down, it going to take the rest of the neighborhood with it.



x

 

I'm gonna have to disagree there then. In this theoretical world. What happens to the Arabs who are evacuated or taken under control in this spate of aggression? You seem to assume that these people, many of whom will have relatives in Hamas, Hezbullah and any other such militant organisation. Do these people suddenly lose any anti-semetism they hold and become model, peaceful citizens? Of course they don't, they'll take up the guns of their predecessors, whether they agree with the cause or not. The action would lead to international condemnation and possible rejection of Israel, and would fuel the flames of anti-semetism for at least another 100 years. Countries that Israel couldn't obtain assistance from otherwise sympathetic nations would attack (here's looking at Saudi Arabia), what then? Does Israel simply nuke the fuck out of them? Violence will only beget violence.

How would you envision Israel being wiped out in it's defensive scenario? Because Iran is still a long way from nukes, and I'm confident that it'll stop or be stopped before it gets them. Ahmedinajad is just flexing his muscles and pretending not to be a fascist with a short man complex at the moment. Any invasion attempt would never succeed, Israel has the backing of many western nations who would step in, not only that, but with it's forces kept focussed on defending it, none of the nearby nations could possibly achieve an invasion, nor would want to. The current tactics the militants are using are:
Fire rockets at random into civilian areas (hezbullah), will never achieve any more than a lot of civilian deaths, and is also pretty impossible to stop bar decimating the entire of southern Lebanon with chemical weapons banned under the Geneva convention.

Suicide bombing (various Palestinian groups) , same outcome as above, can be lessened through tight security, but as long as there are people with a grudge for whatever reason against Israel, it'll never be truly stopped.

 

Israel has shown time and time again that they don't care about innocent civilians (babies, children, women, etc.) They won't think twice about bulldozing a home with a mother and her children inside, nor will they think twice about indiscriminately launching missles at civilian targets.